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YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

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Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#351
post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a huge proponent of this in the early days of the web and was leading the crusade for reader engagement, championing the idea of anonymous commentary and a pure marketplace of ideas. Well, it turns out I had an over-optimistic view of people.

What no one really wants to admit here on YC is that the userbase here is something like the top .01% of (intelligence / literacy / analytical skills). Hell, even reddit, as low-brow as that has gotten, is still top 1% easily. But there are still plenty of staggeringly oblivious views in both places. It's hard to admit that dichotomy, because when we realize that the top 1% or .01% can still be so ignorant, we also g…

The major consequence of this for me is that it has caused me to reevaluate my views on representative democracy.

Edit: As a clarification, while I still tend toward a preference for representative democracy, I now acknowledge that it is possible for a fruitful and productive society to flourish in systems that some may label as an "oppressive dictatorship".

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about people with conservative religious beliefs that others perceive to be exclusionary?

"But what about..." "But what about..." NO. We're talking about people who want to exterminate other people. We know that because the last time they got power, we had mass executions (Holocaust), lynchings, and a century of extreme segregation. This isn't a 'what-if'. We know what happened the last time. Never again.

You're taking something specific and applying it in the broad.

Directly as you quoted, "videos and channels that advocate for neo-Nazism, white supremacy and other bigoted ideologies", those are three separate things and there are a whole range of ideologies there.

The person I replied to specifically called that last one into question, because of the fact that it is so broad.

We we both able to point out other kinds of views that people consider to be bigotry and you literally just directly equated those examples with Nazis. This is exactly why people can't be given this kind of broad censorship power. You proved it in one comment. Congratulations.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#353
post #325
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "check their privilege" [...] (which one could argue is an attempt to justify exclusion)? If you can make the case, maybe. I mean, it sounds like a kind of insane case to make to me. Who's being excluded, and from what, merely by having their assumptions challenged in a discussion context? The groups actually being targetted are ones that tend to advocate for the status of the US as an inherently white nation. Sort…

It's not surprising there'd be groups advocating for that. They don't want to become a minority in their country, as both history and current events show that's a bad position to be in.

I can't tell if you're making a dispassionate explanation for why hate exists or if you're actually advocating for white supremacists...

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#354

I'm starting to think that comment sections on news sites are a really bad idea. At first I thought NPR and the like were cowards for removing theirs. It's bad enough that NYT can be pretty biased on its own, but the comment sections are always full of low-tier thinking that just push whatever narrative is currently in the Overton window. What I find distressing is how people remark that a telecom and advertising gia…

Related: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/02/22/rip-culture-war-thread...

>The thing about an online comment section is that the guy who really likes pedophilia is going to start posting on every thread about sexual minorities “I’m glad those sexual minorities have their rights! Now it’s time to start arguing for pedophile rights!” followed by a ten thousand word manifesto. This person won’t use any racial slurs, won’t be a bot, and can probably reach the same standards of politeness and reasonable-soundingness as anyone else. Any fair moderation policy won’t provide the moderator with any excuse to delete him. But it will be very embarrassing for to New York Times to have anybody who visits their website see pro-pedophilia manifestos a bunch of the time.

“So they should deal with it! That’s the bargain they made when deciding to host the national conversation!”

No, you don’t understand. It’s not just the predictable and natural reputational consequences of having some embarrassing material in a branded space. It’s enemy action.

Every Twitter influencer who wants to profit off of outrage culture is going to be posting 24-7 about how the New York Times endorses pedophilia. Breitbart or some other group that doesn’t like the Times for some reason will publish article after article on New York Times‘ secret pro-pedophile agenda. Allowing any aspect of your brand to come anywhere near something unpopular and taboo is like a giant Christmas present for people who hate you, people who hate everybody and will take whatever targets of opportunity present themselves, and a thousand self-appointed moral crusaders and protectors of the public virtue. It doesn’t matter if taboo material makes up 1% of your comment section; it will inevitably make up 100% of what people hear about your comment section and then of what people think is in your comment section. Finally, it will make up 100% of what people associate with you and your brand. The Chinese Robber Fallacy is a harsh master; all you need is a tiny number of cringeworthy comments, and your political enemies, power-hungry opportunists, and 4channers just in it for the lulz can convince everyone that your entire brand is about being pro-pedophile, catering to the pedophilia demographic, and providing a platform for pedophile supporters. And if you ban the pedophiles, they’ll do the same thing for the next-most-offensive opinion in your comments, and then the next-most-offensive, until you’ve censored everything except “Our benevolent leadership really is doing a great job today, aren’t they?” and the comment section becomes a mockery of its original goal.

[...]

>Fourth, I want anybody else trying to host “the national conversation” to have a clear idea of the risks. If you plan to be anything less than maximally censorious, consider keeping your identity anonymous, and think about potential weak links in your chain (ie hosts, advertisers, payment processors, etc). I’m not saying you necessarily need to go full darknet arms merchant. Just keep in mind that lots of people will try to stop you, and they’ve had a really high success rate so far.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a privately owned museum a "public square"? Or a sports stadium owned by a private company? Or a Cinema? Or a threatre? No, neither is youtube. It's a place the public visit not a piece of public infrastructure. Repeating "public square" over and over again does not make it so.

On the other hand, a privately owned shopping mall is legally a "public square" in a number of states in the US, with the justification that it is explicitly a place for people to gather and interact, just like the main street of a town in the 19th century. Which of these cases is Youtube more like? It's already hard to tell, and it's continuing to change. I expect the legal status of online forums to evolve over the…

>On the other hand, a privately owned shopping mall is legally a "public square" in a number of states

Even then, it does not mean that those malls should allow anyone to sell wares. What it means it allows people to visit without discrimination on basis of legally protected classes like gender and race. YouTube banning a channel does not ban individual from watching videos, it prevents them from uploading videos which is akin to setting up stores.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#356
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that not extreme?

The paradox here is that calling what are mainstream views within Islam “extremist” is in itself an “extreme” and potentially “bigoted” view ... which could get you banned.

Thats not a paradox.

Suicide / death is as extreme as things get for living organisms.

It's not bigoted to state facts you don't like. Mean, maybe, if I time it right. In fact someone calling you a bigot in this isntance actually makes them a bigot.

Talk about a useless insult.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#357
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a privately owned museum a "public square"? Or a sports stadium owned by a private company? Or a Cinema? Or a threatre? No, neither is youtube. It's a place the public visit not a piece of public infrastructure. Repeating "public square" over and over again does not make it so.

Then why does it get the legal benefits of being a "neutral platform"?

Because "neutral platform" in the case of content hosting hasn't ever meant no rules. Youtube has always had rules.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law is specifically written for that case, as noted in my excerpt. AOL had a contract allowing them to censor their contractor’s work, did not censor it (although they did moderate and censor various content on their service), and was still held immune from liability. The CDA basically grants publishers the ability to have their cake and eat it too, so you’d need to change the law.

... did not censor it (although they did moderate and censor various content on their service) ... What does this mean? I don't understand at all.

They censored some things and not others, and were not held liable for those things which they did not censor.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a privately owned museum a "public square"? Or a sports stadium owned by a private company? Or a Cinema? Or a threatre? No, neither is youtube. It's a place the public visit not a piece of public infrastructure. Repeating "public square" over and over again does not make it so.

On the other hand, a privately owned shopping mall is legally a "public square" in a number of states in the US, with the justification that it is explicitly a place for people to gather and interact, just like the main street of a town in the 19th century. Which of these cases is Youtube more like? It's already hard to tell, and it's continuing to change. I expect the legal status of online forums to evolve over the…

The main case related to this is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruneyard_Shopping_Center_v._R... (which other states have a Pruneyard rule? I think it's not very many).
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