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YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

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Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#341
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WW2 wasn't caused by white supremacy, it was caused by nationalism. It was part of the Reich's propaganda to say that they were waging war against the jews (and socialists and communists…), but they were doing this because they though that Germany was superior to its neighbor and was fit to conquer and rule them.

Do you think it's possible that without the propaganda of white supremacy, the German public would have been less willing to go to war?

I think Germany could have probably managed some form of German-supremacist propaganda, instead of Aryan. It might have even worked better strategically if they managed to avoid driving away / killing a large portion of their engineers and scientists.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#342
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because it's literally what YouTube is? Why do you think a nation of free speaking individuals is patently not entitled to say what they want on a platform specifically created to allow people to say whatever they want? To be absolutely clear on my position, I am not saying YouTube is acting outside their rights to censor content. But I am very much saying people have a right to be peeved about the bait and…

It’s disengenuous to say that YouTube didn’t have rules before this. This is just another rule on what’s allowed. Is it wise? I don’t know, probably. In America white supremacy is a rising problem and they are getting radicalized by YouTube and the economics of hate for profit making a lot of money by recommending the more clickbaity extreme videos. They are perhaps correcting the course. Perhaps they are overreactin…

I never said they didn't have rules.

And re your edit, it's not a clarification it's a redefinition and that's what scares people.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#343
post #292
post #193

That's fine if we can agree on what is an "extreme view". YouTube has already decided that academic software vulnerability exploitation proof-of-concept videos are "dangerous content", which results in video removal and a strike on your account.

An extreme view is anything that may reduce income by making advertisers leave.

Correction: Anything that can be reasonably argued to make a layperson believe that it has the potential to make advertisers leave.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#345
For almost all of human history, sharing and persisting information had a pretty high cost. To get something into someone else's head, first you had to verbally tell them. Then you could at least write it once and have it read multiple times. That written work persisted over time longer too, though it required scribes to manually copy them periodically to broadcast it farther.

During all of that time, driving the cost to persist and broadcast information down has been a good thing. The cheaper the better, because it gives more brains access to useful information. I think because of that, we assumed the ideal cost is zero.

In the past several years, I believe we are slowly, painfully, realizing that we were wrong. The web has driven that cost down to practically zero. Any rando can write anything and it will be served on the web to all and sundry in perpetuity.

The problem with that is that it makes it equally easy to broadcast mis-information. What humans need to prosper is access to good information — true facts and useful ideas. Information that helps us take actions that help people.

When there's a non-zero maintainance cost for info, someone has to periodically choose to pay that cost. The scribe has to decide what book to copy. The printer has to decide which pamphlets to re-print. The public access channel has to decide which shows to schedule.

If someone can't be motivated to care about some piece of information enough to do that, it naturally decays and disappears. Like evolution, there's a natural selection process where some memes die. Now, granted, even with a non-zero cost, bad or misinformed actors may choose to further bad information. But I think that happens way more often when the cost to doing so is nil.

So, when you have a non-zero cost, it encourages a certain amount of selection where useful information tends to last longer. At the same time, you don't want the cost too high. When that happens, only the powerful are able to decide what information persists and they choose only information that furthers their own power. Driving the cost down has been, I think, one of the major engines of democracy.

But I do think we've overshot the mark now. In the next several years, it's going to be up to us as a culture to figure out how to effectively deal with the hurricane of misinformation constantly roaring around us. It is, I think, the biggest threat facing human society today.

(You might argue that climate change is a bigger threat. But note that a primary reason we're failing to take sufficient action on climate change is because of misinformation.)

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#346

Note that it's not extreme views (like my adherence to the FSF). Nope, we're talking about "videos and channels that advocate for neo-Nazism, white supremacy and other bigoted ideologies". As much as I don't like censorship, views that advocate for extermination of other people can rightly fuck off.

YouTube gets to decide what a "bigoted ideology" is. That's a sweeping term that can be used as a catch-all for videos they don't like. I think that this will be bad for the platform overall -- an increase in censorship is never good.

An increase in censorship is very frequently good.

Consider a discussion forum that never banned any users or removed any spam. It quickly becomes very difficult to have a meaningful discussion when a third of the posts are "CHEEP ROLE X bUY NOW" and another third are racial hatred.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#347
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because some people view free speech as more than a legal requirement. Its a philosophy of individual rights.

Why do you think you're right to free speech has anything to do with what you can say on someone else's property?

Is the "someone" positioning their property as "a place for people to say stuff, generally speaking" and promoting it that way?

There is established case law and legislation in the US, though pretty variable by state in terms of details, that people can in fact have free speech rights on private property when the private property de-facto functions as a public square. The devil is, as usual, in the details, and the details are, as usual, not time-invariant here.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#348
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You appear to not be understanding my point. The videos being removed are not some "radical right" that serves as the opposite of your definition of "radical left". They are "channels that advocate for neo-Nazism, white supremacy and other bigoted ideologies". BLM, Antifa, etc. are not the "left" equivalent of these "right" viewpoints.

As someone who finds them both distasteful and hateful; yes, they are very similar. All sides need to reign in their extremists, or become defined by them.

Black Lives Matter literally exists to highlight disproportionate police violence against people of color;

not only are they not calling for expelling whites (the "reverse" of what a lot of white nationalists call for), what they are asking for is that people of color be treated by the state enforcement mechanism at parity with white people.

You may find that distasteful, but it is difficult to see what aspect of that is hateful.

From their own website: "We are working for a world where Black lives are no longer systematically targeted for demise."

https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/

I'm only writing all this because it's very important not to let rhetoric like "white nationalists and Black Lives Matter are equivalent"; they're not and it's disingenuous or dishonest to conflate them.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#349
post #228
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If nazis are fundamental to the success of their platform, that's... a problem.

[flagged]

Unfortunately for your argument, most people have basic literacy and understand the meaning of words.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#350
post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a huge proponent of this in the early days of the web and was leading the crusade for reader engagement, championing the idea of anonymous commentary and a pure marketplace of ideas. Well, it turns out I had an over-optimistic view of people.

What no one really wants to admit here on YC is that the userbase here is something like the top .01% of (intelligence / literacy / analytical skills). Hell, even reddit, as low-brow as that has gotten, is still top 1% easily. But there are still plenty of staggeringly oblivious views in both places. It's hard to admit that dichotomy, because when we realize that the top 1% or .01% can still be so ignorant, we also g…

This. It has to be said. Thank you.
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