Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Australia, one of the most open, free and fair places in the world I'm not sure what Australia you live in. We are currently torturing asylum seekers, with unlimited detention periods (the only nation on earth who allows this). A recent whistleblower that showed corruption within the ATO (to Americans: the IRS) is facing charges that would land him with 160 years in prison. We've neglected and abused the native pop…
"We are currently torturing asylum seekers, with unlimited detention periods (the only nation on earth who allows this)." - China would love a word with you..
Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster
71–80 of 116 posts
Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Australia does not have any constitutional protections of press freedom (or freedom of speech for that matter). So draconian laws limiting press freedom can be passed without any recourse for the public. Being able to forcefully disclose a journalists sources would not be permitted anywhere else in the world. We need reforms, not cow-towing to these disgusting authoritarian tactics. Not to mention that this is clearl…
"Being able to forcefully disclose a journalists sources would not be permitted anywhere else in the world." -- China would like to have a word with you, prehaps..
Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
You’re just being snide and snarky now. I don’t know why people think it’s extreme to say that I don’t want my public broadcaster quoting their own opinions in the news reports. The article would have been complete without a quote from themselves, or could have used a quote from someone else qualified. Really easy solutions.
There's no such thing as unbiased journalism.
Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Our cops are criminals I spent a year working as a cop and I can assure you that cops are in fact normal people. Like any organization or group there is a tribal aspect to it and they will certainly close ranks and attempt to protect their own; however, that is organizational not individual. There is a larger cultural issue involved that drives such misguided organizational behavior.
I'm unsure what your point is? You can make the same claims about criminals and indeed many people people do. Criminals are in fact normal people.
Could you elaborate more on this claim?
In an ideal world, criminal behavior is supposed to be defined as abnormal and unwanted behavior.
* Is my definition of “criminal” for an ideal world way off target?
* Or, are you mostly critiquing how non-ideal our current world is, and the injustice of many laws currently on the books?
* Something else?
Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everyone seems to get lost in the nuance. It really does matter what is being published. You can't go ahead and publish for example the locations of US ballistic missile sites and say 'hey, freedom of expression'. The real problem lies where information is considered classified, but at the same time, there's a legit case to be made for whistle blowing. I don't think Manning's leaks actually constitute whistle blowing…
What a load of strawman arguments, whataboutery and general rubbish. Of course it's possible to have untrammelled freedom of speech. It may have downsides in many cases, but perhaps that is a price worth paying. Also, in what way does exposing the murder of innocent civilians by Manning not count as whistleblowing? Finally, why should free speech protections be restricted to journalists?
No, totally false. There's a considerable amount of information that you cannot publish. Both information managed by the state, and information that is private to individuals and organizations.
There's a considerable amount of information that many individuals would like to publish that definitely does not constitute 'whistle blowing'.
It's not a 'straw man argument' because the issue is relevant every day to journalists trying to make this decision.
There's considerable consternation among even major/professional media outlets about what parts of leaks they can publish, what they can't, moreover, there are entities (i.e. bloggers) who'd just publish whatever, whenever, without considering the consequences if they didn't have to.
So sorry, you can't publish pictures of your naked girlfriend, or private medical records of employees, or many state secrets.
2) Manning published gigabytes of data for which he had no knowledge of the contents - this is not 'whistle blowing', moreover, his publication of the video journalists dying in a war zone does not fit this description either.
Nobody has the right to enter into a firefight in the most dangerous location in the world, and to not inform the combatants (as per protocol) and expect that they will be treated with the normal rules of application of violence in a civilian area.
Of course, were the journalists were to have informed the US forces of their intentions, they would have been told to 'absolutely not enter because your safety will be ensured'.
The video shows the folly of individuals who think they can just walk into a war zone with cameras. There was no crime.
3) "Finally, why should free speech protections be restricted to journalists?"
Well, first consider that 'shield laws' as they exist generally only apply to journalists, so take that up with the government, but it hints at my point which is that the 'rules are vague'.
Your understanding of 'freedom of speech' as conveyed by your comment seems to be flawed: nobody ever had the right to publish 'whatever' under the guise of 'freedom of speech'.
Summary:
- There is information that cannot be published, there is no debate here.
- The rules at to what can be published is unclear.
- The 'shield laws' are vague, and especially the terms of what constitutes 'journalist' is vague, further complicating things.
So if we want the journalists to be able to 'do their jobs' we may need better, clearer regulation.
Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
Uhm, doctors and medical professionals wanting to expose the rape and abuse of child refugees on Nauru might disagree with you.
Disagree with which part? Exposing illegal activity would seem to be confidently within the bounds of 'whistle blowing'.
The government is not interested in investigating these hideous abuses and conditions at all. In fact they were trying to find the whistleblowers (probably to prosecute them) rather than investigating the allegations of rape and torture[1].
[1]: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/federal-government-a...
Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm unsure what your point is? You can make the same claims about criminals and indeed many people people do. Criminals are in fact normal people.
> Criminals are in fact normal people. Could you elaborate more on this claim? In an ideal world, criminal behavior is supposed to be defined as abnormal and unwanted behavior. * Is my definition of “criminal” for an ideal world way off target? * Or, are you mostly critiquing how non-ideal our current world is, and the injustice of many laws currently on the books? * Something else?
Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster
#78Reminds me of this crazy clusterfuck unfolding in San Francisco: https://reason.com/2019/06/04/san-francisco-police-got-a-war...
They look different to me. Australia is flexing its anti-speech authority, asserting the power to control what its subjects are allowed to talk about. My hometown cops are engaged in a much more quotidian abuse of power. Which is not to say ransacking Carmody's place wasn't egregious - it was. Watching the circular firing squad composed of the Mayor, the police chief and the cop-union attack dog just leaves me rootin…
The state absolutely has that responsibility, and there isn't even a debate about that in general.
You cannot publish pictures of your naked girlfriend, or private medical records, or private e-mails of some employee of ABC corp, or of some bureaucrat, or of some military technology etc..
There's no debate there.
So then the question becomes - "What information that is nominally protected by law (say for example, classified material), rises to the level of evidence of criminal activity and therefore newsworthy, by law"
That's a razor's edge, and that has to be sorted out if we want to live in a world where our privacy is protected but the at the same time legit crimes are called out.
Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes this stood out to me too. I don't really understand why a warrant would enable alteration. Copying I can wrap my head around, but alteration without oversight seems awful. Hopefully the warrant has more fine print than the journalist implied.
Perhaps they had a ruling in the past that during accessing a computer, things got changed, like the logs. And so now they have to have that in the warrant so that they don't lose their case. It sounds stupid, but I could see it happening.
Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster
#80But that's not what scares me the most.
What does scare me is the very real prospect of all this being done silently, without any visibility or awareness of the journalists or their employers, without any knowledge of the public, and without any accountability, via electronic spying. The recently-introduced Assistance and Access legislation [1] enables the AFP and intelligence agencies to legally compel tech companies to secretly insert backdoors into their products or services in order to spy on any target, subject to the approval of the Attorney General.
One day this law will be used to collect the same type of information the AFP collected today, without the news organisation, journalists, sources, or public even being aware of it. And anyone unfortunate to find themselves as the recipient of such a technical assistance/capability notice under this law will face jail time for telling anyone about it.
The warrant executed today included the power to "to add, copy, delete or alter other data" [2]. Why, in particular, did they have the power to "alter" data? And what "alterations" might they make in combination with [1] which we will never know about?
[1] https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/foi/files/2019/fa190200278-do...
[2] https://twitter.com/TheLyonsDen/status/1136126140882440193