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Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

bbc.co.uk

41–50 of 116 posts

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#41
post #21

I'm getting a bit sick of journalists acting like they should be above the law. This comes across as though it's an audacious abuse of authority for any law enforcement official to even think about stepping foot into a media companies office. No, you are subject to criminal investigation just like anyone else is. I'm always amazed how qickly the media closes ranks when one of their own is perceived to be under attack…

Australia does not have any constitutional protections of press freedom (or freedom of speech for that matter). So draconian laws limiting press freedom can be passed without any recourse for the public. Being able to forcefully disclose a journalists sources would not be permitted anywhere else in the world. We need reforms, not cow-towing to these disgusting authoritarian tactics. Not to mention that this is clearl…

Right, Australia has no bill of rights. The State of Victoria (Melbourne) has a charter of human rights, but I don't think it's binding. Australia courts have held up freedoms of protest and press in the past, but technically the Crown does control all communication. New Zealand has an official office of censor.

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#42
post #21

I'm getting a bit sick of journalists acting like they should be above the law. This comes across as though it's an audacious abuse of authority for any law enforcement official to even think about stepping foot into a media companies office. No, you are subject to criminal investigation just like anyone else is. I'm always amazed how qickly the media closes ranks when one of their own is perceived to be under attack…

Australia does not have any constitutional protections of press freedom (or freedom of speech for that matter). So draconian laws limiting press freedom can be passed without any recourse for the public. Being able to forcefully disclose a journalists sources would not be permitted anywhere else in the world. We need reforms, not cow-towing to these disgusting authoritarian tactics. Not to mention that this is clearl…

I don't necessarily disagree with your larger point, but there are at least two important factual errors here:

* Australia does have an implied constitutional right to freedom of political communication: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_constitutional_law#... * The federal election was on May 18, this search was on June 4th, well after the election. If anything, the AFP may have waited long enough to ensure this did not affect the election.

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#43
It's important to note that Australia does not have a bill of rights. Victora (Melbourne) has a Charter of Human Rights. Although Australian courts have held freedoms of protest and press in the past, technically the Crown does have the legal power to control and censor communications.

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#44
post #24

For those who don't know, the ABC is funded by the government.

Funded in the same way the US government has grants for PBS and NPR or funded in the sense it's partially or fully owned by the Australian government?

The ABC is funded mainly by the Australian government and appointments to the ABC Board made by the government [1]. The funding is currently around $1 billion a year [2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Broadcasting_Corpor...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Broadcasting_Corpor...

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty amazed that people on this forum are so quick to jump on the side of an authoritarian right-wing government over press freedom.

Australia, one of the most open, free and fair places in the world, into which millions are trying to migrate because of this ... is now a 'right wing authoritarian state'? I think we need to look at the specific information in question. FYI here's a summary of Australia shield laws [1] (sorry, it's not very good) [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/07/australia-jour...

> Australia, one of the most open, free and fair places in the world

I'm not sure what Australia you live in.

We are currently torturing asylum seekers, with unlimited detention periods (the only nation on earth who allows this). A recent whistleblower that showed corruption within the ATO (to Americans: the IRS) is facing charges that would land him with 160 years in prison. We've neglected and abused the native population to the point that Aboriginal teenager suicide rates are among the highest in the world. Our education system is failing to the point where our education system has the same standards as third world nations -- we rank lower in science and maths than Kazakhstan. In 2015, laws were passed to punish whistleblowers, journalists, AND THE PUBLIC if ASIO (Americans: the NSA) information becomes public. We are the only nation on earth to pass draconian anti-privacy laws that other nations' leaders can only dream of. We don't have any laws guaranteeing freedom of speech, privacy, or any other freedoms we take for granted -- and we are the only western democracy where this is the case.

Don't get me wrong, I hope Australia does get better -- after all, I deeply want it to because I've grown up here. But if you think that the Australia of today is in any way "one of the most open, free and fair places in the world" you're simply mistaken. Yes it's better than living in Saudi Arabia but that shouldn't be an accomplishment.

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#46
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BBC reporting on stories about itself doesn't stop other people from also reporting on stories about the BBC. Isn't that obvious?

I didn't say it stopped them. I know it's possible for them to do it. I said they should stop doing it. It's completely impossible to be even remotely impartial reporting yourself. Isn't that obvious?

You said they "should let other people report on stories that involve them", implying that somehow they could stop that. Bit of a blurry sentence.

> It's completely impossible to be even remotely impartial reporting yourself. Isn't that obvious?

No. It depends on the organisation. In the BBC's case, I'd say the opposite is true.

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty amazed that people on this forum are so quick to jump on the side of an authoritarian right-wing government over press freedom.

What a misguided comment. There are no "sides" here. Unless you think that any criticism of journalistic practices puts me on "the other team". Grow up!

It seems I can't reply to your other comment, so I'll address it here:

>Journalists should know that if they walk the fine line between legal and illegal then they run the risk of being investigated.

Sure, no disagreements there.

>If they're confident they're on the right side of the law then they have little to worry about.

This is not the issue, the issue here is clearly intimidation by government entities that wish to silence the media. Right side of the law doesn't matter to the law if you have the right dirt. The right dirt will get your killed.

>What I take exception to is their attitude, as if it's some great affront to decency and democracy that they should come under any kind of scrutiny.

It certainly is a great affront to decency and democracy when the work the journalists are involved in is exposing behavior unfitting for the government. We're not talking about twitter accounts being suspended for saying unsavory things, we're talking about large organizations being raided by the entities they are investigating. Clearly these are distinct situations.

>I don't see many people hurling childish insults on HN, but here you are.

I call it like I see it. People like you are the reason that so much of our world is non-transparent. You might be ok with that, I am not.

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#48
The raid was being live tweeted by an ABC editor, the tweet that stood out the most to me was this:[0]

AFP: I’m still staggered by the power of this warrant. It allows the AFP to “add, copy, delete or alter” material in the ABC’s computers. All Australians, please think about that: as of this moment, the AFP has the power to delete material in the ABC’s computers. Australia 2019.

[0]https://twitter.com/TheLyonsDen/status/1136124130204442624

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#49
post #14
post #4

Reminds me of this crazy clusterfuck unfolding in San Francisco: https://reason.com/2019/06/04/san-francisco-police-got-a-war...

They look different to me. Australia is flexing its anti-speech authority, asserting the power to control what its subjects are allowed to talk about. My hometown cops are engaged in a much more quotidian abuse of power. Which is not to say ransacking Carmody's place wasn't egregious - it was. Watching the circular firing squad composed of the Mayor, the police chief and the cop-union attack dog just leaves me rootin…

> Our cops are criminals

I spent a year working as a cop and I can assure you that cops are in fact normal people. Like any organization or group there is a tribal aspect to it and they will certainly close ranks and attempt to protect their own; however, that is organizational not individual. There is a larger cultural issue involved that drives such misguided organizational behavior.

Re: Outcry as Australian police search public broadcaster

#50
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia does not have any constitutional protections of press freedom (or freedom of speech for that matter). So draconian laws limiting press freedom can be passed without any recourse for the public. Being able to forcefully disclose a journalists sources would not be permitted anywhere else in the world. We need reforms, not cow-towing to these disgusting authoritarian tactics. Not to mention that this is clearl…

I don't necessarily disagree with your larger point, but there are at least two important factual errors here: * Australia does have an implied constitutional right to freedom of political communication: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_constitutional_law#... * The federal election was on May 18, this search was on June 4th, well after the election. If anything, the AFP may have waited long enough to ensure t…

> Australia does have an implied constitutional right to freedom of political communication

Yes, I am aware of that but it's simply not sufficient. While there are the 1992 interpretations, there has been significant evidence that the High Court is handcuffed by the lack of language in the constitution about individual freedom. There are also many subsequent cases where the protection was not granted.

But lets not forget that "freedom of political communication" comes from the fact that any Australian has the right to run as a political candidate and discuss political ideas. It's already an incredibly stretched usage of the intentuon of the preamble of the constitution.

Lets also not forget that the Liberal government tried to make it a crime (punishable with 5 years imprisonment) to post YouTube videos that have government logos in them -- unless they constituted "genuine satire". The fact that "freedom of political communication" didn't kill the idea from the outset tells you how weak the protection really is.

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