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If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

nytimes.com

71–80 of 113 posts

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#71
post #9

And now I have to feel guilty about this too. What a life :/

Have you considered an insanity defense? Just tell yourself the thought of traveling to an exotic location temporarily reduces your mental capability to that of a six year old. If you cannot comprehend the consequence of your action then you're not guilty. Actus reus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea.

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#72
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, a lot of people say we shouldn't have kids because it's bad for the Earth. Which ties to poor arguments about "overpopulation".

What are poor arguments about overpopulation? Clearly overpopulation is part of the problem.

Is it? When countries modernize their economies, the birth rate plummets to near-replacement rates over the course of about two generations. Take Iran, for example. In 1980, their birthrate was around 6. Today, it's lower than Europe. What population growth we're seeing today is mostly due to increased lifespan, not high birth rates.

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to. People always worry about destroying nature, they don't worry so much about nature destroying them . Let's say you were stranded in the arctic and met one of those poor polar bears. He'd rip you to pieces just for the heck of it. He's a goddamn killer with no remorse. He's not going to feel guilty. So fuck that polar bear and the ice sheet he lives on. We don't owe him a damn thing. We're going to…

This seems like an odd perspective. We aren't polar bears and I don't know why their intellectual incapacity to empathize with their prey should have any bearing on how we feel about destroying them or their environment.

Let's say it was an even more unpleasant animal. Imagine one of these brain-eating parasitic worms.

How much quality of life would you personally be willing to give up on, to save those worms and their environment?

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#74
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow. This could be satire and I wouldn't be able to tell. What's so important about experiencing anything? Just watch TV.

It's hyperbole, but its partly true. I live in greece and see those tourists. We live in a tourist bubble, fueled by social media, airbnb and pretty instagram pictures. Tourists are overreporting the value of their experience, as in most cases i know they are getting a prepackaged experience, which is same for everyone, in a beautiful environment but really not always meaningful. Local cultures are diluted everywhere…

Could it be that, because you're living there, you're used to the sight? And, conversely, people traveling halfway across Europe to visit Greece are just bored of their own neighbourhood? (sure, most likely many people are missing places they could go that are much closer but less advertised).

>Local cultures are diluted everywhere, and when they are preserved in touristy places it's artificial.

There are plenty of things to do when traveling that don't involve bothering local people. I don't see how just looking at the nature, for example, is any less "meaningful".

>Tourism nowadays is largely escapism

Protip: all entertainment is escapism.

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#75
post #59
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think something missing from this, is that people wouldn't just stop doing things. People will still want to travel, and have air conditioning, so large incentives will exist to develop technologies that make this possible without the emissions. The greener alternatives will be relatively less expensive when the externalities of fossil fuels are priced in.

We really have to push for new technologies and be ok with subsidizing them in order to help mass adoption and lower prices. Only a few people really think we should stop doing X or Y (even if they are really vocal). Instead of feeling bad, let us find a better solution that actually makes life even more worthwile. Why not aim for making travelling cheaper and even more available, while at the same time make it envir…

> I would totally LOVE the day when I can do a 500k trip with the family using electric technology

This seems to be fairly close. The Pipistrel Panthera looks quite promising, for instance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipistrel_Panthera#Specificati... "Hybrid range is 758 mi or 1,220 km; Electric range is 249 mi or 400 km"

> I do not know about you, but to me, a sustainable future simply looks and feels amazing.

I agree. Losing our technological dependence on fossil fuels is very freeing. I can imagine this resulting in a future where energy is also a lot cheaper, as there is a lot of potential for solar and nuclear power to see reductions in cost as the technologies improve and benefit from economies of scale. Conversely oil and gas become scarcer and more expensive.

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#76
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hyperbole, but its partly true. I live in greece and see those tourists. We live in a tourist bubble, fueled by social media, airbnb and pretty instagram pictures. Tourists are overreporting the value of their experience, as in most cases i know they are getting a prepackaged experience, which is same for everyone, in a beautiful environment but really not always meaningful. Local cultures are diluted everywhere…

Could it be that, because you're living there, you're used to the sight? And, conversely, people traveling halfway across Europe to visit Greece are just bored of their own neighbourhood? (sure, most likely many people are missing places they could go that are much closer but less advertised). >Local cultures are diluted everywhere, and when they are preserved in touristy places it's artificial. There are plenty of t…

- There is definitely something about changing environment/traveling that is rewarding. (When mice are put into a unfamiliar environment, their hippocampus is more active and they become more active). But perhaps this need can be satisfied with much shorter distances rather than mass intercontinental flights.

- There is definitely some value to traveling, but it is greatly inflated by social pressure, the media, and the fact that most tourist destinations are cheap to westerners.

- Yeah, but some escapism is more eco-friendly than others

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#77
post #22

I feel like some of the biggest offenders are scientists attending conferences. Is there an estimate of the research budget % spent on travel expenses?

Why pick on scientists? Engineering and all industries and hobbies have conferences all around the planet. Convention centers of major cities are probably booked all year long. Not sure how much that contributes though.

Because it's the one that is easier to control. and perhaps if scientists make the first step , corporates will follow

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#78

"But actually this summer, we’re going to Greece" He does all the calculations, is more informed than the average person, and still decides to just go for it. This is why the battle against global warming is pointless. Human population explosion (triggered by the invention of agriculture) will simply run its course, and we'll just have to live with whatever world we'll be left with in the end. Yes, he is buying "offs…

You think a TV is carbon neutral? Have you considered going into a medically induced coma and just staying there, even less environmental damage.

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#79
post #39

No. Here is what we actually should do: http://www.kimnicholas.com/uploads/2/5/7/6/25766487/fig1full... Upd: apart from the carbon tax, of course.

I mean, transatlantic flight is #3 on that list. If however you want to target directly #1, then i hope people from africa are seeing this.

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#80
post #69
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are consciously making decisions to not live a carbon heavy life, you'd naturally choose to not live in a ex/suburb.

So we should all pile into cities? Do you realize how ridiculous that is? We can't concentrate everyone in a walkable / bikeable area, it's just not feasible.

Everyone? No. There are legitimate economic activities in non-urban places; there's unavoidable resource extraction, there are agricultural activities, that sort of thing.

Most people? Sure. It requires re-thinking how we (Americans particularly) structure our cities, and will not be an overnight process, but what is preventing us from doing this generally? Aside from the idea that such re-thinking is impossible, anyway.

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