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If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

nytimes.com

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Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#21

Post by Harvey-Specter »

bubblewrap wrote: post #12
geff82 wrote: post #5

The recent argument against traveling is a proxy war. Heating, cooling, electricity and driving are the things that make up 75% of the emissions, plus about 20% for industrial production. All of the points I listed can be replaced by sustainable alternatives TODAY (ok, maybe not all people in one year, but the products are available) without us having to reduce out comfort in a major way. We could travel 5 times more…

Really - what solution is there for heating and cooling? Especially given that insulating houses with plastic seems to cause other problems like mold, or pollution with toxins to prevent mold? And driving? People could just stay home, I suppose?

Really - you can't think of any solutions for heating and cooling houses without burning fossil fuels? Electric baseboard heaters have been a thing forever, just power those with solar or wind or nuclear and we're done. My air conditioner is already electric.

Drive an electric car, and buy renewable electricity.

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#23

Post by joshvm »

No mention of rail?

Not a solution in the US, but virtually all of Europe and Asia is connected by a dense, largely inexpensive, rail network which is increasingly being electrified. That puts the onus on the grid, but there is a trend towards lower carbon electricity so emissions should lower over time. You can walk and cycle the rest of the way.

The reason we fly is because its cheap, fast and convenient.

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#24

Post by gridlockd »

eafkuor wrote: post #9

And now I have to feel guilty about this too. What a life :/

You don't have to. People always worry about destroying nature, they don't worry so much about nature destroying them.

Let's say you were stranded in the arctic and met one of those poor polar bears. He'd rip you to pieces just for the heck of it. He's a goddamn killer with no remorse. He's not going to feel guilty.

So fuck that polar bear and the ice sheet he lives on. We don't owe him a damn thing.

We're going to grill this planet and then terraform it right back again, maybe. Or maybe we'll all die in the process. But we shouldn't feel guilty about it. Nature put us at the top of the food chain, it's going to have to deal with the consequences.

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#25

Post by happytoexplain »

eropple wrote: post #15
bubblewrap wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really - what solution is there for heating and cooling? Especially given that insulating houses with plastic seems to cause other problems like mold, or pollution with toxins to prevent mold? And driving? People could just stay home, I suppose?

> And driving? People could just stay home, I suppose? Walk. Bicycle. Use public transit. In extremity, buy an electric car (but that has issues, too). If your question is "what should people who live, heavily subsidized, in suburbs and exurbs, do?", then the answer teases itself out pretty elegantly.

Why the dismissive attitude about where people live?

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#26

Post by jniedrauer »

As someone who loves being out in the wilderness, this has been fairly depressing to me. The more time I spend out there, the more I damage it. I didn't feel guilty during the winter, because I was always moving on snow, and I was generally the only one out there. But as it gets warmer and the snow melts, hoards of people from Seattle descend on the wilderness and trample it to death. And I'm one of them.

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#27

Post by jcroll »

jniedrauer wrote: post #26

As someone who loves being out in the wilderness, this has been fairly depressing to me. The more time I spend out there, the more I damage it. I didn't feel guilty during the winter, because I was always moving on snow, and I was generally the only one out there. But as it gets warmer and the snow melts, hoards of people from Seattle descend on the wilderness and trample it to death. And I'm one of them.

Wait, walking outside is a sin now

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#28

Post by buboard »

inertiatic wrote: post #20
bubblewrap wrote: post #10

"But actually this summer, we’re going to Greece" He does all the calculations, is more informed than the average person, and still decides to just go for it. This is why the battle against global warming is pointless. Human population explosion (triggered by the invention of agriculture) will simply run its course, and we'll just have to live with whatever world we'll be left with in the end. Yes, he is buying "offs…

Oh wow. This could be satire and I wouldn't be able to tell. What's so important about experiencing anything? Just watch TV.

It's hyperbole, but its partly true. I live in greece and see those tourists. We live in a tourist bubble, fueled by social media, airbnb and pretty instagram pictures. Tourists are overreporting the value of their experience, as in most cases i know they are getting a prepackaged experience, which is same for everyone, in a beautiful environment but really not always meaningful. Local cultures are diluted everywhere, and when they are preserved in touristy places it's artificial. Tourism nowadays is largely escapism, not much different from VR or gaming. I wish people started actually moving to other places instead of just visiting. A mass emigration to more temperate climates would also reduce heating costs massively.

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#29

Post by [deleted] »

bubblewrap wrote: post #10

"But actually this summer, we’re going to Greece" He does all the calculations, is more informed than the average person, and still decides to just go for it. This is why the battle against global warming is pointless. Human population explosion (triggered by the invention of agriculture) will simply run its course, and we'll just have to live with whatever world we'll be left with in the end. Yes, he is buying "offs…

[deleted]

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#30

Post by estebank »

Harvey-Specter wrote: post #21
bubblewrap wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really - what solution is there for heating and cooling? Especially given that insulating houses with plastic seems to cause other problems like mold, or pollution with toxins to prevent mold? And driving? People could just stay home, I suppose?

Really - you can't think of any solutions for heating and cooling houses without burning fossil fuels? Electric baseboard heaters have been a thing forever, just power those with solar or wind or nuclear and we're done. My air conditioner is already electric. Drive an electric car, and buy renewable electricity.

The problem I see though is that "drive an electric car" is interpreted all too often as "buy an electric car, and now that you're 'green', do not worry yourself about the fact that you change cars every two years and the footprint of your gas consumption is dwarfed by the footprint of actually making the cars pat self in back".
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