iPadOS • Hacker News Board

Re: iPadOS

#321

Post by sobani » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 2:55 PM UTC

georgyo wrote: post #301

sobani wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't those latencies add up? In the worst case 60Hz + this new pen will add up to (16 + 9) 15ms of latency, right? If the screen refreshes at T=0,16,33,50 and you create input at T=8 then the input will be processed at T=17 (8+9), so you will need to wait for T=33 before it show up for a total latency of 25ms (33-8). Which is a lot better than the potential total latency of 36ms with a 20ms pen.

People seem to be down voting without explaining. Refresh rate isn't latency. Though you are right that you do have to wait for the screen to redraw. There is screen latency as a completely separate number though, and those would add up. Many lcd monitors can have up to a 20ms latency. And those numbers would add up like you suggest. It's why gaming monitors can charge a bunch for their 1ms latency at 60hz. It is als…

Well I didn't even consider any latency of the screen itself.

But someone please explain how a refresh rate less than infinity doesn't create some sort of delay. In my naive understanding a 60Hz monitor means it refreshes the screen every 16ms. If you miss one refresh, you'll have to wait 16ms for the next one. This would be an extra 16ms it takes between moving the pen and seeing the reaction, right?

Re: iPadOS

#322

Post by rchaud » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 3:29 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #306

anbop wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 2 year old should not be watching TV and playing video games.

Says you. There's certainly value that TV or video games can give young children.

If you sit down with them and watch/play together, absolutely. If you just plop the kid down in front and let Youtube's autoplay algorithm do the work, that's a very different matter.

Re: iPadOS

#323

Post by rchaud » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 3:33 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #295

Mertax wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an interesting strategy; where others have tried to unify their OS (WinRT/UWP, Honeycomb->Ice cream sandwich). Honeycomb and WinRT were viewed as fragmentation, I think somehow it won’t be viewed the same with iPadOS

> Honeycomb and WinRT were viewed as fragmentation, I think somehow it won’t be viewed the same with iPadOS iPadOS runs in at most 10-20 devices (and all are iPad models). HoneyComb and WinRT run on hundreds and hundreds of devices, with widely different capabilities. So there's that fragmentation there too.

WinRT ran on the original Surface RT and maybe 2 Asus devices. After less than a year Asus bounced, as nobody wanted a Windows equivalent of a Chromebook. Even MS themselves killed the OS well before discontinuing the Windows Phone division altogether.

Re: iPadOS

#324

Post by jordache » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 3:40 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #101

jordache wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what's the solution? not implement multi-finger gestures due to complexity and just omit the feature altogether? I'd rather have those capabilities? My drawing apps on iOS all have tons of multi-touch gestures. I appreciate they are there.

what's the solution? Who says the situation needs solving? I'm just providing perspective. I'd rather have those capabilities? My drawing apps on iOS all have tons of multi-touch gestures. I appreciate they are there. That's the same attitude people had about Ctrl and Alt key shortcuts and power user features and function keys.

>Who says the situation needs solving?

Of course it needs to be solved. You have finite screen real estate. Lack of physical buttons. Multi-touch gestures is a natural space for user input.

Re: iPadOS

#325

Post by ghusbands » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 3:47 PM UTC

georgyo wrote: post #301

sobani wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't those latencies add up? In the worst case 60Hz + this new pen will add up to (16 + 9) 15ms of latency, right? If the screen refreshes at T=0,16,33,50 and you create input at T=8 then the input will be processed at T=17 (8+9), so you will need to wait for T=33 before it show up for a total latency of 25ms (33-8). Which is a lot better than the potential total latency of 36ms with a 20ms pen.

People seem to be down voting without explaining. Refresh rate isn't latency. Though you are right that you do have to wait for the screen to redraw. There is screen latency as a completely separate number though, and those would add up. Many lcd monitors can have up to a 20ms latency. And those numbers would add up like you suggest. It's why gaming monitors can charge a bunch for their 1ms latency at 60hz. It is als…

No, refresh rate directly affects latency. At a refresh rate of 60Hz (without gsync/freesync), with input arriving at arbitrary times, you have an average of half a frame (and a maximum of a whole frame) of unavoidable latency, above and beyond whatever other latency may exist.

If you have enough control over your devices, you can arrange for your input to arrive at just the right time to be included in each frame without extra latency, though.

The kind of latency you describe is that internal to the display; it could be called the video-signal-to-photon latency. The parent you're replying to is explaining the action-to-video-signal and compute-to-video-signal latency, and its effects on the action-to-photon latency.

Re: iPadOS

#326

Post by closetohome » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 5:04 PM UTC

Creationer wrote: post #20

MaupitiBlue wrote: post #10

But no mouse support. :(

USB-C/Bluetooth Mouse and Keyboard support, including on extra screens when plugged in, would have been a killer feature. I guess Apple thought it would cannibalise Mac sales too much?

Apparently iPadOS added mouse support. It's currently an accessibility feature, but it's there.

Re: iPadOS

#327

Post by eric_the_read » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 6:16 PM UTC

rchaud wrote: post #322

saagarjha wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Says you. There's certainly value that TV or video games can give young children.

If you sit down with them and watch/play together, absolutely. If you just plop the kid down in front and let Youtube's autoplay algorithm do the work, that's a very different matter.

It's stressful enough trying to keep up with all the expectations society puts on new parents without the additional hassle of strangers on the Internet criticizing your parenting style because it doesn't agree with their preconceived notions of how you ought to raise your children. Let parents parent.

Re: iPadOS

#328

Post by nilkn » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 6:25 PM UTC

bitL wrote: post #84

Will there be a multi-user mode? Perfect for separating work from home or multiple clients... It would make iPad so much more usable as a single device for both work and fun.

This is what is necessary for me to buy an iPad Pro. I really like the idea of the device, but I can't justify the price unless I can share it and have personal and work stuff on there too.

Re: iPadOS

#329

Post by darzu » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 6:38 PM UTC

youeseh wrote: post #204

darzu wrote: post #201

Honestly these new changes (esp. the second monitor for MacOS support, if it works well) will probably finally get me to buy an iPad. This all looks very good to me. Real file system browser; much better multi-tasking; closer integration with macbook.

I might switch to writing code on an iPad. Even after all these years of writing code using a keyboard, I still think better with a pen.. I realize that I'll be pushing text slower with a pen, but I'm that hoping the quality will improve!

This sounds.. crazy to me but hey if it works for you that's great and maybe you should post something! I'd be curious to see a workflow that uses handwritten code.

Re: iPadOS

#330

Post by anbop » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 7:22 PM UTC

eric_the_read wrote: post #327

rchaud wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you sit down with them and watch/play together, absolutely. If you just plop the kid down in front and let Youtube's autoplay algorithm do the work, that's a very different matter.

It's stressful enough trying to keep up with all the expectations society puts on new parents without the additional hassle of strangers on the Internet criticizing your parenting style because it doesn't agree with their preconceived notions of how you ought to raise your children. Let parents parent.

Sure, give them Marlboros and Wild Turkey too.