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Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

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Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#181

Post by musicale »

1over137 wrote: post #78
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? How does this affect them on macOS at all? If Bash were also being used on iOS that would be different, but I'm quite confident that will never happen.

Again, perhaps it is because Apple is planning for a future where SIP and Gatekeeper cannot be turned off. A future where macOS is basically reduced/merged to iPadOS. Time will tell.

I expect Macs in enterprise/education are locked down so that Gatekeeper and SIP can't be turned off by normal users.

But preventing ALL Macs from turning off Gatekeeper and SIP? I think that would be unpopular.

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#182

Post by koenigdavidmj »

brirec wrote: post #95
okdana wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that what they've done? The linked article doesn't say that.

$ /bin/sh --version GNU bash, version 3.2.57(1)-release (x86_64-apple-darwin19) Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc.

You can change this by pointing /var/select/sh .

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#183

Post by rusk »

AtlasLion wrote: post #178
rusk wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lucky you! I do a reboot on my Windows 10 machine every night. I also suffered from intermittent complete and total lockups due to a bug in what I traced to spotify. Similar thing happened with MacOS and safari recently enough too so I stopped using Safari for a while ...

using a Lenovo P50 with windows 10 for 2 years now, I only reboot it maybe once a month, for the rest, I close the lid, it goes to sleep, next day in the office, I open the lid and continue where I stopped. so far I have had zero issues with it.

That's how I use my mac. Sad to say I've never had that experience with Windows but then again, I've never had a Lenovo ...

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#184

Post by wazoox »

barrkel wrote: post #170
rusk wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience Mac OS still has the edge in terms of stability. But certainly the gap is closing.

The only crashes I've had from NT kernel over the past 15 years or so are from graphics card drivers and bad RAM. Linux is a lot less stable, as a laptop OS, than Windows or OSX. Suspend and resume in presence and absence of multiple monitors is like rolling dice; locks up about 15% of the time.

Not my experience. I used mostly Linux for 15 years, and I had zero problems with laptops, external screens and suspend in the past 8 years. I have a Linux laptop that's used for demo hooked up to a TV, settings are changed from dual screen to mirroring all the time, then it goes to sleep, is woken up with the TV off, etc, zero trouble, it hadn't rebooted in 2 months.

And Windows still requires random reboots for updates, of course usually at the worst possible time (fortunately I only use windows in VMs for testing). God how I hate Windows, it's unbearable really, after 5 minutes at the third nagging stupid popup (update Java! update Acrobat! update antivirus! don't turn off the computer, installing update 2 on 10532!) I want to throw the thing out of the window :)

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#185

Post by paulcarroty »

barrkel wrote: post #170
rusk wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience Mac OS still has the edge in terms of stability. But certainly the gap is closing.

The only crashes I've had from NT kernel over the past 15 years or so are from graphics card drivers and bad RAM. Linux is a lot less stable, as a laptop OS, than Windows or OSX. Suspend and resume in presence and absence of multiple monitors is like rolling dice; locks up about 15% of the time.

> Linux is a lot less stable, as a laptop OS, than Windows or OSX.

Can't remember any major problems with Linux on laptops for latest 5 years. All works like charm.

If you use a cheap/noname/non-popular hardware - it happens, yes, but in Windows world too.

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#186

Post by [deleted] »

holoduke wrote: post #150
jxi wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those seem like pretty big downsides to me, and I don't believe the new terminal marketing gimmick. I will admit Windows has been very attractive lately for gaming reasons, but from a development standpoint, MacOS still seems way ahead of Windows. I seriously considered it, but there would be too much I'd miss if I switched. There's some minor reasons too, like why does IntelliJ look ugly in Windows? It looks great i…

Well did you try out Linux bash on windows. In less than 2 minutes you setup a Debian instance. You got shells and everything. All well known ide's are available on both Windows and Mac. In my opinion there is no real difference anymore. I am a Mac user and windows user. The only reason why I still use my Mac is because of the ergonomics.

[deleted]

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#187

Post by skykooler »

m_mueller wrote: post #87
AaronFriel wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, Homebrew? You can't tell me that Microsoft is able to ship entire distribution's userlands (Debian, Ubuntu, SUSE, and more) through the Windows Store, including all their GPL3 components, and Apple can't figure out how to ship an updated version of base64. If I'm grumbling, it's just because making devops/CI scripts work on Windows and Linux is easier than MacOS and Linux these days because my colleagues run into…

I've moved on to Windows since last year. Besides terminal emulators being shit (which they're fixing now), worse PDF support and shit OS config management, there's really not much anymore that goes in favor of Macs. Their laptops are worthless junk at 40% markup, the OS gets buggier and more locked down with every version while Windows is on a clear trajectory of improvement and PC hardware gives real choice and inn…

My biggest problem with Windows is that you can't scroll in a window or a pane without clicking on it first. Both Mac and Linux support that and it makes the OS feel so clunky.

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#188

Post by pfooti »

farisjarrah wrote: post #90
reilly3000 wrote: post #51

zsh is the default shell on all of my machines because I make it so. I think the tab completions that ohmyzsh provides have saved me on the order of 40 hrs / year, and helped me learn new APIs much easier, since you can see all options without the --help. If you haven't tried it, I cannot recommend zsh + plugins enough. Only install that you actually use, otherwise it can slow start time a bunch. Here is a list of th…

Shout out to the fish shell which can do all the fancy syntax highlighting and show command options out the box with no plugins

I used fish for a while, but the fact that it is a clear break from bash / sh syntax for things like chaining and redirecting made my reflexes all wrong. I'd type `dothis && dothat` and fish would just say, "umm, I think you mean `dothis and dothat`", or I'd have to use a bash subshell to run some command someone else wrote with some fiddly find syntax piping to xargs. So I just switched to zsh. Less cool name, but my reflexes are once again correct.

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#189

Post by eMSF »

skykooler wrote: post #187
m_mueller wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've moved on to Windows since last year. Besides terminal emulators being shit (which they're fixing now), worse PDF support and shit OS config management, there's really not much anymore that goes in favor of Macs. Their laptops are worthless junk at 40% markup, the OS gets buggier and more locked down with every version while Windows is on a clear trajectory of improvement and PC hardware gives real choice and inn…

My biggest problem with Windows is that you can't scroll in a window or a pane without clicking on it first. Both Mac and Linux support that and it makes the OS feel so clunky.

That's actually one of the better new features in Windows 10 (that you can these days scroll an inactive window).

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#190

Post by Wowfunhappy »

musicale wrote: post #181
1over137 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, perhaps it is because Apple is planning for a future where SIP and Gatekeeper cannot be turned off. A future where macOS is basically reduced/merged to iPadOS. Time will tell.

I expect Macs in enterprise/education are locked down so that Gatekeeper and SIP can't be turned off by normal users. But preventing ALL Macs from turning off Gatekeeper and SIP? I think that would be unpopular.

A company or school can already do this easily, by the way, by setting a boot-loader password and restricting admin access. Notably, this are normal macOS functions, you don't need a fancy mtm setup.
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