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Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

bloomberg.com

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Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#211

Post by freeflight »

ninkendo wrote: post #191
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every one of your scenarios has an American analog. You're basically reading off the script of the two minutes hate.

What’s the American analog of the social credit system?

Secretive terrorist watch lists managed by ML [0]

For a more overt manifestation, just take a look at how the US treats ex-convicts: Public shaming by releasing mug-shots, some states even revoking their right to vote among other rights, de-facto turning them into second-grade citizens for life.

[0] https://theintercept.com/2018/12/03/air-travel-surveillance-...

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#212

Post by _Codemonkeyism »

cltsang wrote: post #177
Tsubasachan wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its fascinating how America is slowly turning into a country that simply doesn't want foreigners. Sadly I like New York so I have to diligently go through the mountain of paperwork. How many people from the EU overstay or cause problems for the police?!

How did you get that impression? From what the article says America is only getting more conscious about foreigners from China, not foreigners in general. They are quite different. This is hardly a surprising move considering the recent realization that the Chinese government has been pushing propaganda against American values like freedom, democracy, and basic human rights, on American soil. One notable example is c…

"First they ..."

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#213

Post by NotPaidToPost »

orhmeh09 wrote: post #187
C1sc0cat wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If its like the UK International students are a source of income as they pay more and subsidise the locals.

How did universities ever manage to operate whilst charging much lower/no tuition back when there was not a group like this?

State funding.

Funding was shifted to fees. Although considering how much of student loans is not expected to be repaid it's arguable that a lot is still state funded...

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#214

Post by ryanmercer »

nl wrote: post #190
onetimemanytime wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is causing problems for USA. Right or wrong, USA thinks that they are essentially educating their future battle enemy.

"Researchers" aren't exactly your typical students though. They contribute a huge amount to the IP developed within a country. PhD students do a lot a the grunt work that more famous people get most of the credit for.

> They contribute a huge amount to the IP developed within a country.

And can willingly, or under coercion by their home government (We'll put your parents in prison, rape your mother, have you stabbed in the street), hand over every last bit of data they have access to on any project(s). Considering most decent educational institutions receive mountains of defense department money and have all sorts of government-involved research projects for all sorts of emerging technologies that have anything remotely approaching intelligence community or military applications... I can see why we'd want to crack down, purely for opsec reasons, on students coming from a country that is most likely going to overtly be our enemy sometime in the near to mid-term future.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#215

Post by NotPaidToPost »

ekianjo wrote: post #174
henrikschroder wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has a massive advantage in science (and business) in that many of the best and brightest from across the world want to come to the US, despite the hurdles and issues of getting student visas or work visas. This means that as a country you don't have to pay for the primary and secondary schooling of all these people, but you get to reap the rewards of them working in your country and contributing to your scient…

primary and secondary education costs virtually nothing compared to college so thats a pretty weak point to make. You could make the exact reverse point, that universities in the US have built their expertise over decades if not centuries and Foreign students are largely benefiting more from them than whatever they could get in their home countries.

> primary and secondary education costs virtually nothing compared to college.

Except that this isn't true at all.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#216

Post by lamigra_burner »

protastus wrote: post #126
fragmede wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - but not entirely by choice. Many a PhD student has returned home after earning their degree, because of the US's visa policies, which make it hard to stay after completing a degree. Why would they stay somewhere that doesn't want them?

Current visa rules make it very easy to stay. STEM graduate students on an F-1 visa get a whopping 36 months of employment authorization in the US. Look up OPT extension. That's 3 years they can apply to get a H-1B. In fact, getting a M.S. from a mediocre U.S. school is a popular method young people use to immigrate.

You and I have very different definitions of easy. Nervously waiting for a year to find out whether you'll be lucky enough to stay, then not really having any job mobility for several more years is not exactly easy. God forbid you want to start a family. Honestly in a few years it probably won't be worth the hassle. Maybe it's a good thing (no excuse but to build our sh*tty countries)

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#217

Post by fitnesshealth »

the_svd_doctor wrote: post #72
nneonneo wrote: post #9

Students from China (and many other countries) are required to renew their visas annually, a process which is already quite nerve-wracking for many. PhDs in particular can take anywhere from 4 to 8 years to complete, meaning 4-8 chances for your studies to be interrupted with the only option to return home while the visa renewal stalls. This article explicitly calls out the fact that renewals seem to have been gettin…

Your first point is incorrect. First a student asks for an F-1 (sometimes J-1) visa. This can be delivered for a single entry (typical for Iranian students for instance), or for 1 or like 5 years (the common case for international students). The visa lets you _enter_ the country. Once admitted in the US, a student can remain indefinitely while maintaining its student status (including school transfers). This applies…

Thanks For information

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#218

Post by _lessthan0 »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #89

A well-known Youtuber called Serpentza recently made a video about how Chinese students don't assimilate into American culture and how it is made difficult for them to assimilate, partly due to overt action from the Chinese government. For one thing, Chinese culture is quite alien to western culture, and I don't mean that in a judgemental way, just that their spoken, written and body language is so much different tha…

For one thing, Chinese culture is quite alien to western culture, and I don't mean that in a judgmental way, just that their spoken, written and body language is so much different that it is automatically harder for them. It doesn't help that they are told by the educational system and state media how great China is and how bad the US.

This is like me studying in the UK, meeting or bumping into US students. Very loud, aggressive because they cant handle alcohol, very arrogant. It also doesn't help that they are told by their educational system and gov that they are the greatest, the land of the free and can do what ever they please if they 'work' hard for it. Also how the US is the master nation of the world, that they are the world police.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#219

Post by emiliobumachar »

threezero wrote: post #81
paulgb wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this line of thinking so odd, because nobody ever says “exporting American {cars/corn/computers} to China drives up demand and costs to US citizens.” The worst-case scenario here is that education is economically just equivalent to an export, but that’s still a pretty great scenario! Especially since it’s an export that doesn’t pollute, supports high-paying labor, perpetuates the global premium associated with…

Well, except there’s a finite amount of educational slots, and so fewer people who would keep that education and knowledge in the US are able to get in.

What keeps institutions from increasing the number of spots to meet demand, much like car manufacturers?

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#220

Post by dsfyu404ed »

ETHisso2017 wrote: post #119
the_svd_doctor wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there is no such a rule. F-1 VISA are _typically_ granted for 5 years, but PhDs may be longer (6 or even more). Once your VISA expires, and if you go home, you need to reapply for a new one. For some (a small fraction through), VISA are granted for 1 year or are single entry. Those categories of students sometimes chose not to leave the country, for the risk of getting their VISA denied (and, hence, their whole s…

This is depressingly inhumane. Why is there no advocacy around the issue?

Because bureaucratic injustice committed against (typically) rich foreigners aren't exactly high up the priority list for most Americans.
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