Guess they had to go somewhere as Apple's unwillingness to have GPLv3 code effectively killed off bash updates. Slightly disappointed, but guess they had to go somewhere and zsh is going to be well supported going forward
Said the same about zfs.
Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac
141–150 of 252 posts
Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
So? Apple doesn't ship updated packages. It never did. If you want updates, you use a package manager, not Apple's ancient crap. That's life.
Apple ships supported, stable packages. Like Debian and CentOS, yes, that means that sometimes you don't get the latest shiny version to play with.
Yeah, like somebody mentioned their awk version is from 2006 and buggy as hell. In Debian the packages are updated at least once in two years. In Apple case it’s pretty obvious that they don’t update anything after they changed app license to GPLv3
Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac
#143While Apple is at modernizing their POSIX userland, they should also consider other ancient software they're using. For example, last I looked on Apple's Darwin Open Source site (about a year or two ago), they shipped a really old and buggy awk (nawk) version.
I assumed this is licensing decision, with the permissive zsh vs bash’s gpl3
Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
"from a development standpoint, MacOS still seems way ahead of Windows" Sorry but have you heard of Visual Studio?
Everyone has heard of Visual Studio, and nobody that has to use it wants to. Just because you have Stockholm syndrome doesn't mean everyone else has to have it too ;-)
I'm really suprised at this comment.
I'm confident most of the .NET community is very happy with Visual Studio.
In my opinion, Visual Studio massively outclasses Eclipse, VSCode and Netbeans. It even makes IntelliJ (which is pretty great too) look a bit inadequate.
(I use Emacs these days though.)
Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
It runs slower, so it helps encourage you to buy more expensive hardware.
If your hardware cost is driven by the performance of your shell, I question what you're doing with your terminal emulator. I can think of essentially zero areas in which zsh is slower than bash in which it is slow enough to create the need for a hardware upgrade, or even contribute to such a need on an already-overloaded system. I mean, sure, file performance bugs if you want. But your shell is not going to be the "…
Git completion is unbearably slow for me in zsh, but fine in bash. It is a very large repo I work on, but we're talking 10s vs instant. I still use zsh though because it's nicer in other ways.
Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't believe this to be true, and I don't know where this comes from. Their documented GPLv3 reluctance predated code signing on their platforms by many years. FWIW, GPLv3 was controversial even amongst GPLv2 advocates for all sorts of reasons, never mind amongst actual lawyers. No conspiracy theories required, even if you disagree with their position. The Linux kernel and many other non-GNU projects never updated…
Agreed. I think the GPLv3 patent clauses were and are a much bigger problem with Apple legal
Indeed, and there is already a facility to replace code/binaries without signing: disable SIP.
Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac
#147While Apple is at modernizing their POSIX userland, they should also consider other ancient software they're using. For example, last I looked on Apple's Darwin Open Source site (about a year or two ago), they shipped a really old and buggy awk (nawk) version.
Can we get a modern python version while we're at it?
They're just going to remove it completely:
> Scripting language runtimes such as Python, Ruby, and Perl are included in macOS for compatibility with legacy software. In future versions of macOS, scripting language runtimes won’t be available by default, and may require you to install an additional package.
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode_release_note...
Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those seem like pretty big downsides to me, and I don't believe the new terminal marketing gimmick. I will admit Windows has been very attractive lately for gaming reasons, but from a development standpoint, MacOS still seems way ahead of Windows. I seriously considered it, but there would be too much I'd miss if I switched. There's some minor reasons too, like why does IntelliJ look ugly in Windows? It looks great i…
"from a development standpoint, MacOS still seems way ahead of Windows" Sorry but have you heard of Visual Studio?
>Sorry but have you heard of Visual Studio?
A sluggish clumsy bloated IDE? What's good about it? I've used it for a couple of years when I wrote directshow filters, and it was a complete shit back in a days (2015-2017).
* terrible clumsy project system, where changing a flag is a quest. As abominable as autotools.
* using non-vcproj projects is a pain, especially when you have a bunch of make files
* It's slow as hell.
* Language support is lacking. No OCaml, no Lisp, hell, even C11 is a quest.
After they've added a package manager and clang support, it became less painful, but fur from great experience.
Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac
#149I had trouble updating iTunes once because my shell was set to zsh, and it took me quite a while to debug what went wrong. I recommend that when this switchover occurs, users should temporarily switch to bash if they encounter an installer that does not work.
Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've moved on to Windows since last year. Besides terminal emulators being shit (which they're fixing now), worse PDF support and shit OS config management, there's really not much anymore that goes in favor of Macs. Their laptops are worthless junk at 40% markup, the OS gets buggier and more locked down with every version while Windows is on a clear trajectory of improvement and PC hardware gives real choice and inn…
Those seem like pretty big downsides to me, and I don't believe the new terminal marketing gimmick. I will admit Windows has been very attractive lately for gaming reasons, but from a development standpoint, MacOS still seems way ahead of Windows. I seriously considered it, but there would be too much I'd miss if I switched. There's some minor reasons too, like why does IntelliJ look ugly in Windows? It looks great i…
Well did you try out Linux bash on windows. In less than 2 minutes you setup a Debian instance. You got shells and everything. All well known ide's are available on both Windows and Mac. In my opinion there is no real difference anymore.
I am a Mac user and windows user.
The only reason why I still use my Mac is because of the ergonomics.