A well-known Youtuber called Serpentza recently made a video about how Chinese students don't assimilate into American culture and how it is made difficult for them to assimilate, partly due to overt action from the Chinese government. For one thing, Chinese culture is quite alien to western culture, and I don't mean that in a judgemental way, just that their spoken, written and body language is so much different tha…
Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools
111–120 of 279 posts
Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools
#112From a purely self-interested perspective, this is the dumbest thing the US could possibly do. There are talented people who want to leave China and come study and work in the US. We are basically stealing China’s best minds. Now we’re telling them they can’t come and shipping them back? I don’t think we should have conflict with China, but, if you are looking for conflict with China, sending brilliant minds back to…
Are you seriously saying that the children of the wealthiest families in China are "China's best minds"? Please, show me some evidence for this egregious claim. There is no such thing as modern Chinese meritocracy.
I've been in programming and systems administration my whole working life, and I've been working in departments that are about half foreign born for most of that time. It's always a kinda weird cultural clash at first, as I look and sound, uh, a little bit midwestern; I've never left the country, and I have zero formal education and come from a family I'd call middle class (outside the bay area middle class) And then you get these very cosmopolitan foreign born people who almost always have advanced degrees working alongside me.
My impression is pretty different from yours. My impression is that, yeah, a lot of these people were raised rich and powerful by the standards of where they came from, and many have the social defects you see in Americans who had serving staff as children. But... generally speaking? they meet or exceed the same technical standards everyone else does for the job. I mean, interviewing is hard, and sometimes they get one that isn't any good, but that's true of all people of all national origins. interviewing is hard, and you make mistakes in both directions, and have to correct later.
Now, I didn't go to school; I don't know if those that aren't any good get failed out in school, or if they don't pass the interview... but I will stand by my statement that if you put in the effort to understand the accents, these foreign students aren't worse than US born candidates. And even if we're just talking about communication, foreign born people I've worked with who were educated at US schools all wrote better than the average US-born person in the same role. I assume that was something the US schools either filtered on or taught well.
I'm just saying; my experience is that these people, one way or another, got themselves some serious education and passed a fairly high intelligence bar, too. There's no way that these are China's minds with the most potential, but they might be among China's best educated minds, and that ain't nothin'
(As an aside, I certainly agree that you overlook a lot of good people if the first step in your filtering process is "has wealthy parents." both China and the US has serious problems with wasting good minds that happen to be born to parents who aren't wealthy. That this has been true for all of history doesn't excuse the truth.)
Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your first point is incorrect. First a student asks for an F-1 (sometimes J-1) visa. This can be delivered for a single entry (typical for Iranian students for instance), or for 1 or like 5 years (the common case for international students). The visa lets you _enter_ the country. Once admitted in the US, a student can remain indefinitely while maintaining its student status (including school transfers). This applies…
So once a student has been on a F-1 visa for more than a year, they face a risk of being barred from re-entering the US if they choose to visit their families?
Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
The question, is these bright minds never spent 10 years at MIT or Harvard, and instead spent it at Peking University, would be they be of the same caliber?
Probably not. However, does it matter? If we take some of the best and brightest from China and make them even better, why would it matter if they'd otherwise be still some of China's best and brightest but less well trained? Regardless the US wins and China loses very talented people.
Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools
#115In 2013, the number of Chinese students returning to China after graduating hit 90%. [1] It used to be more like 9 in 10 would remain in the US to work. If foreign graduate students are staying and working in the US, it’s probably a net benefit hosting them in US schools, even though it drives up demand and therefore tuition costs for US citizens. If 8 or 9 out of 10 are returning to China, better to keep the spot fo…
Do we know the fraction who were given a long-term visa but returned anyway? Trying to disentangle the difficulty of graduates getting visas from graduates who are just coming here to go home afterwards.
Recently after BAT(Baidu, Alibaba, Tencent) become big, a lot returned. Most of those returned are senior engineers/managers in FAANG. The career ceiling in China for native Chinese is almost nonexistent and overseas experience consider a huge plus. And yes Alibaba paid more then the google counterpart around 2015
Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools
#116In 2013, the number of Chinese students returning to China after graduating hit 90%. [1] It used to be more like 9 in 10 would remain in the US to work. If foreign graduate students are staying and working in the US, it’s probably a net benefit hosting them in US schools, even though it drives up demand and therefore tuition costs for US citizens. If 8 or 9 out of 10 are returning to China, better to keep the spot fo…
Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools
#117Elite universities have been more than complicit in this as well, especially when they can charge such a premium on "international student" tuition. It is also why they so often look the other way when those students bring their cultural values on things like cheating with them. No one dares admit it for fear of being labeled racist or xenophobic.
Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're absolutely right. China is desperately fighting brain drain and here we are giving them a helping hand.
Almost makes me wonder if it's deliberate, as in some quid pro quo agreed upon, implied, or otherwise, between the US and Chinese presidents. Though what the US gets out of it is unclear, I wouldn't be shocked.
>"I believe that if people stoped[sic] using or subscribing to @ATT, they would be forced to make big changes at @CNN, which is dying in the ratings anyway. It is so unfair with such bad, Fake News! Why wouldn’t they act. When the World watches @CNN, it gets a false picture of USA. Sad!"
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 3, 2019
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/11354990026261544...
What the US gets out of that is also unclear.
I guess you could just take at face value this proposition by the US President that boycotting AT&T to enforce large changes in the editorial policy of CNN is something that is good for the US. But I think that you would also have to be very careful not to think about it very hard.
Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, iirc F1 visas are usually granted for length of program plus one year (5 for a BS etc). As long as the person maintains student status with the university, traveling to and fro is permitted.
No, there is no such a rule. F-1 VISA are _typically_ granted for 5 years, but PhDs may be longer (6 or even more). Once your VISA expires, and if you go home, you need to reapply for a new one. For some (a small fraction through), VISA are granted for 1 year or are single entry. Those categories of students sometimes chose not to leave the country, for the risk of getting their VISA denied (and, hence, their whole s…
Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
So once a student has been on a F-1 visa for more than a year, they face a risk of being barred from re-entering the US if they choose to visit their families?
Yes. Arguably, it's not common, though. But it's certainly possible, and the reason some decide not to leave.