Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac • Hacker News Board

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#101

Post by okdana » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 4:06 AM UTC

TehCorwiz wrote: post #100

okdana wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

zsh doesn't require any 'plugins' for its tab-completion, everything you need is distributed with the shell. A lot of people who use zsh just don't understand how it works and think that OMZ/Prezto/whatever are doing something special for them that they couldn't achieve themselves with one line in their .zshrc (or that may even be enabled by default in their OS's global zshrc, as is the case on Ubuntu for example)

Yeah, I went that route before settling into Oh-My-Zsh. The thing is, those single lines add up quick leading to increased mental overhead and time investment. It's never been about 'understanding' zsh or not, it's always been about making it comfortable to use, quickly, on any given system I might use. Sometimes a nice set of defaults is more productive than a custom solution.

I agree that zsh's default configuration sucks (and the new-user wizard is overwhelming). I would like the project to provide a more opinionated set of defaults to OS vendors; i think we are probably just nervous about breaking 30 years' worth of expectations, and so far nobody has really pushed for it.

But i do think the misunderstanding i mentioned is very common, as illustrated by the fact that the GP seems to think that OMZ itself provides zsh's completion functionality. It's also a frequent point of confusion with people seeking assistance on zsh's IRC channel.

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#102

Post by mwfunk » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 4:13 AM UTC

Newtonip wrote: post #21

For those wondering why Apple is allergic to GPLv3 code: there is a clause in the license requiring you provide a way to run modified version of the software which would require Apple to let users self sign executables.

I don't believe this to be true, and I don't know where this comes from. Their documented GPLv3 reluctance predated code signing on their platforms by many years. FWIW, GPLv3 was controversial even amongst GPLv2 advocates for all sorts of reasons, never mind amongst actual lawyers. No conspiracy theories required, even if you disagree with their position. The Linux kernel and many other non-GNU projects never updated to GPLv3 and it had nothing to do with enforcing anyone's walled gardens.

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#103

Post by okdana » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 4:13 AM UTC

dontbenebby wrote: post #96

I've never worked outside bash. I have a lot of simple bash scripts. (Usually just stringing together commands with the occasional pipe or output to file) Will this break all those or are bash scripts and zsh scripts basically interchangeable?

As the other person said, if your scripts are executables with an sh or bash 'shebang' at the top, they will continue to use the same shell they always did.

But if you did want to run them with zsh, most simple scripts that just set environment variables, string together commands, or redirect to files should work without any changes. The most obvious difference for basic scripts like that is that zsh doesn't split parameter-expansions on white space by default (so if you did something like `opts='-a -b -c'; mycmd $opts` it wouldn't work without additional, minor, modifications)

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#104

Post by paxys » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 4:14 AM UTC

As a happy zsh user, I'm glad that this will finally force every application and software package in the world to stop assuming that bash is the default (and only) shell.

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#105

Post by w0mbat » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 4:25 AM UTC

hestefisk wrote: post #27

I still fondly remember when tcsh was the default shell. Like a real BSD Unix.

Yes, tcsh was the default in 10.0 then in 10.3 they changed it to bash.

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#106

Post by eridius » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 4:28 AM UTC

javagram wrote: post #88

bayareanative wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? Apple doesn't ship updated packages. It never did. If you want updates, you use a package manager, not Apple's ancient crap. That's life.

Apple stopped shipping updated packages because bash went GPLv3... Since ZSH is under an MIT-like license, they’ll probably ship updates to it.

The version of /bin/zsh on macOS 10.14.5 is a little over 2 years old. This means they have already been shipping updates to it. Now that it's the default shell they'll probably ship updates a little more frequently (I don't have Catalina installed but I'm guessing its version of zsh is newer than 5.3).

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#107

Post by eridius » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 4:29 AM UTC

mmastrac wrote: post #97

From 2012 - Apple's great GPL purge: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3559990 Short-sighted move considering Microsoft is actively looking to ship a Linux kernel in Windows.

The Linux kernel is GPLv2. Apple still ships GPLv2 code, but they're highly allergic to GPLv3 (as are most big companies).

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#108

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 4:43 AM UTC

mwfunk wrote: post #102

Newtonip wrote: post #21

For those wondering why Apple is allergic to GPLv3 code: there is a clause in the license requiring you provide a way to run modified version of the software which would require Apple to let users self sign executables.

I don't believe this to be true, and I don't know where this comes from. Their documented GPLv3 reluctance predated code signing on their platforms by many years. FWIW, GPLv3 was controversial even amongst GPLv2 advocates for all sorts of reasons, never mind amongst actual lawyers. No conspiracy theories required, even if you disagree with their position. The Linux kernel and many other non-GNU projects never updated…

[deleted]

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#109

Post by mrpippy » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 4:45 AM UTC

mwfunk wrote: post #102

Newtonip wrote: post #21

For those wondering why Apple is allergic to GPLv3 code: there is a clause in the license requiring you provide a way to run modified version of the software which would require Apple to let users self sign executables.

I don't believe this to be true, and I don't know where this comes from. Their documented GPLv3 reluctance predated code signing on their platforms by many years. FWIW, GPLv3 was controversial even amongst GPLv2 advocates for all sorts of reasons, never mind amongst actual lawyers. No conspiracy theories required, even if you disagree with their position. The Linux kernel and many other non-GNU projects never updated…

Agreed. I think the GPLv3 patent clauses were and are a much bigger problem with Apple legal

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#110

Post by AaronFriel » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 4:49 AM UTC

burke wrote: post #79

AaronFriel wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bash is GNU and so is much of the dated MacOS userland.

If I recall correctly, much of the MacOS userland is dated because it uses the last GPLv2 releases of various packages before a move to GPLv3.

That's what this thread is about :)