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Zero Rupee Note

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Re: Zero Rupee Note

#61

Post by altair8800 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9
bifrost wrote: post #2

Wow, thats pretty cool, I had no idea. I am a bit shocked that it works though.

> I am a bit shocked that it works though It's a shaming mechanism. If an official is committed to collecting a bribe, it will be useless. But some corrupt officials might be responsive to a verbal dressing down. Handing over a zero-rupee note is less intimidating than delivering a lecture.

The beauty I see in it is that the corrupt official is offered the option to then pass this note on to someone else, whether that be whoever he needs to bribe or just a friend or family member affected by corruption. Giving someone else an alternative rather than just refusing to cooperate can catch them off guard and be quite disarming.

Re: Zero Rupee Note

#62

Post by mrep »

cardiffspaceman wrote: post #52
Phrodo_00 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people are getting away with ignoring the law, and in turn that makes bad laws more transparent, which in turn give people even more incentives to bribe their way out of situations. Bribes are also tax-exempt.

In the USA the bribe revenue would not be tax-exempt. Failing to pay tax on it would be another infraction.

And? INAL but I believe taking bribes is worse legally than not paying taxes so if you are willing to do the former, then why does the latter really matter? If you are going to take bribes, you are obviously not going to report it for fear of that second infraction because the first one would be worse and thus you wouldn't take the bribe in the first place if the latter infraction scared you.

Re: Zero Rupee Note

#63

Post by erklik »

emaster wrote: post #23

Interestingly, the number zero was invented in India

The ancient Egyptians had a conception of zero, and used a herioglypical symbol for zero. China had a counting rod system, with an empty space being a zero and Mathematical Treatise in Nine Sections had a round symbol being used for zero. Other authors were familiar with the concept of negative numbers.

These are alll before Indian "invention" (probably be discovery) of zero.

Re: Zero Rupee Note

#64

Post by fourier_mode »

thtthings wrote: post #46

I don't think people actually use the note though. I don't see anyone having guts to give that note to policemen or government officials in India. Everyone in India just like the US is scared of the Police and know not to mess with them.

Yes, although the concept is good I am pretty sure after handing this note the official would demand for more.

Nowadays I have seen threatening with audio/video footage using a smartphone work pretty well.

Re: Zero Rupee Note

#65

Post by stevenwoo »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #49
oconnor663 wrote: post #32

I wonder how similar bribery culture is to tip culture. In the US where we tip restaurant workers, restaurant wages are often much lower than comparable positions in industries that don't have tipping, so much so that the difference is often explicitly included in minimum wage laws. Do countries with more bribery experience a similar effect, where the wages of police officers and other bribery-prone worker are much l…

I've no way of validating this but I've read that tipping in the US was originally a way for patrons to make sure that the server got paid. During the great depression people were often so desperate for work they would be willing to work for free in the hopes that employers would hire them. (This is still a thing in Journalism). Employers would exploit that. Patrons fought back by tipping workers directly. In the US…

Tipping originated a long time ago, but grew popular in the USA as a way to avoid paying newly freed slaves the same as non African Americans for work.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dar...

http://time.com/5404475/history-tipping-american-restaurants...

Re: Zero Rupee Note

#66

Post by oconnor663 »

vbezhenar wrote: post #60
oconnor663 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's that terrible win-win to everyone situation and that makes it very hard to destroy. It does make it sound like there's a bribery-free equilibrium really close by though. Like imagine all of these things happened as part of a single reform: - Policeman and management salaries go up. - Fines go down. - Taxes go up. - Anti-bribery enforcement goes way up. The idea would be to acknowledge that regardless of the br…

People don't respect police, so when government would want to massively increase their salaries, people would protest against it. Fines go down is a good thing for sure, but it'll reduce amount of money going to local budgets, so people in government will protest against it (because they'll need to find money to replace those from reduced fines). Taxes go up: nobody likes it. Anti-bribery goes way up: when everyone's…

> It's hard to go there evolutionary.

Yeah that seems like exactly the problem.

Re: Zero Rupee Note

#67

Post by tomstockmail »

aaronharnly wrote: post #3

Zero-currency notes have been generated for most of the world: http://zerocurrency.org/

Interesting. Another project with similar goals I came across recently is https://www.stampstampede.org/faq/ which was started by Ben Cohen of Ben & Jerry's fame. They use a stamp (like the Where's George project) and keep legal notes in circulation.

Re: Zero Rupee Note

#68

Post by buckminster »

Phrodo_00 wrote: post #48
geomark wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very accurate description of how it is where I live. But at the end you call it a terrible win-win for everyone. If it's a win-win for everyone how can it also be terrible?

Because people are getting away with ignoring the law, and in turn that makes bad laws more transparent, which in turn give people even more incentives to bribe their way out of situations. Bribes are also tax-exempt.

> Bribes are also tax-exempt

It's not a terrible idea.

I heard that post-war Germany had a massive corruption problem so they made bribing legal (but not bribe taking) and bribes tax-exempt. So everyone declared their bribes on their tax returns, the bribees were discouraged (or prosecuted) and the problem was solved. But this only works if you pursue the bribe takers.

Re: Zero Rupee Note

#69

Post by nostromo »

stevenwoo wrote: post #65
Gibbon1 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've no way of validating this but I've read that tipping in the US was originally a way for patrons to make sure that the server got paid. During the great depression people were often so desperate for work they would be willing to work for free in the hopes that employers would hire them. (This is still a thing in Journalism). Employers would exploit that. Patrons fought back by tipping workers directly. In the US…

Tipping originated a long time ago, but grew popular in the USA as a way to avoid paying newly freed slaves the same as non African Americans for work. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dar... http://time.com/5404475/history-tipping-american-restaurants...

That might be true, but those articles are using a restaurant employees advocacy group as their only source. And beyond that one person's conjecture, there isn't much evidence that it's actually true.

Re: Zero Rupee Note

#70

Post by wallace_f »

sterlind wrote: post #53
wallace_f wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jackson's face is fitting -- He fought against corruption, and he particularly hated central banking and other banker interests.

And he defied a ruling by the Supreme Court to initiate the Trail of Tears, killing ~16000 Native Americans during their forced relocation. The new valuation suits him well indeed.

And that was horribly wrong, but I'm not sure it fully discounts the current context about monetary corruption.
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