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Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

nytimes.com

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Re: Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

#81

Post by JohnFen »

bduerst wrote: post #71
ookdatnog wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I find your examples convincing. MS still firmly monopolizes desktop OS (over 85% market share there). Sure, that market has lost weight due to the rise of mobile, but last I checked we're all still doing our day jobs on desktop computers, and for most office workers (who aren't developers), that's synonymous with working on a Windows machine. For 20-30 years people have had effectively no freedom to cho…

Marketshare != Monopolizing Microsoft would have to be doing anticompetitive behavior to be monopolizing the desktop market. Things such as forcing OEMs to not allow linux support, or banning iTunes installation on Windows. Simply being popular isn't the same as a monopoly. Apple has, on the other hand, been monopolizing their iOS devices with the app store. It is the only way to install apps on iOS and Apple has pla…

> Microsoft would have to be doing anticompetitive behavior to be monopolizing the desktop market

No. I think the distinction here is important and worth being mindful of.

Whether or not a company is abusing their monopoly position has no bearing on whether or not they are a monopoly. You can't abuse a monopoly position if you aren't a monopoly to begin with, after all.

The distinction is important because in the US it's perfectly legal to be a monopoly. What's illegal is the abuse of your monopoly position.

I think by any fair standard, Microsoft can be considered to have a monopoly in the desktop market, whether or not they're leveraging that monopoly in illegal ways.

Re: Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

#82

Post by yes_man »

Findeton wrote: post #67
WalterBright wrote: post #27

In my career, first it was IBM, the unstoppable juggernaut that was going to take over the world. Then it was Microsoft, and everyone forgot about IBM. Then it was Apple, and everyone forgot about Microsoft. Before IBM, it was RCA. Everyone has forgotten about RCA. It's like in retail. First it's Sears, the unstoppable juggernaut that will take over the world. Then it's Walmart, and Sears is bankrupt. Now it's Amazon…

I agree, it's bullshit. Not only that, but monopolies are not a bad thing, as long as they are not government granted ones.

A monopoly regulates supply to extract more money from the consumer than a competitive market could. What's the good parts?

Re: Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

#83

Post by darkwizard42 »

vturner wrote: post #42
not_a_moth wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy smokes, since when did interest in our constitutional rights of free speech become a "right" thing? It seems like the "From the right" should be "right-wing belief that tech platforms push left-wing biases", true or not, that is their gripe.

And the down votes prove your point... Incredible.

Or perhaps its just a reminder to the user that free speech does not need to be extended by private organizations...They have in their TOS to remove content they do not deem fit in the same way users do not need to use these services.

Re: Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

#84

Post by djflutt3rshy »

losteric wrote: post #59

And not Comcast, Walmart, AT&T? ... I wonder why

Gotta give money to the winning team...

Alphabet: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=D000067823&cy...

Apple: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=D000021754&cy...

Amazon: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=D000023883&cy...

Facebook: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=D000033563&cy...

---

Comcast: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=D000000461&cy...

Walmart: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=D000000367&cy...

AT&T: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=D000000076&cy...

Re: Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

#85

Post by JohnFen »

Findeton wrote: post #67
WalterBright wrote: post #27

In my career, first it was IBM, the unstoppable juggernaut that was going to take over the world. Then it was Microsoft, and everyone forgot about IBM. Then it was Apple, and everyone forgot about Microsoft. Before IBM, it was RCA. Everyone has forgotten about RCA. It's like in retail. First it's Sears, the unstoppable juggernaut that will take over the world. Then it's Walmart, and Sears is bankrupt. Now it's Amazon…

I agree, it's bullshit. Not only that, but monopolies are not a bad thing, as long as they are not government granted ones.

> monopolies are not a bad thing, as long as they are not government granted ones.

I disagree. Outside of "natural monopolies", monopolies are bad things whether government-granted or not.

Re: Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

#86

Post by JohnFen »

panpanna wrote: post #49
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For both IBM and Microsoft, I would argue that anti-trust cases at least contributed to their fall from the top. https://www.nytimes.com/1981/02/15/business/us-vsibm.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor... .

Don't know about IBM, but in case of Microsoft it was some really horrible technical decisions and a lot of internal fights that caused their downfall. Well, maybe downfall is a harsh word for a company still very successful & profitable...

IBM is still very successful and profitable as well.

Re: Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

#87

Post by WalterBright »

jhayward wrote: post #72
WalterBright wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IBM's fall happened long after the anti-trust action against them. It's Microsoft that tipped them over, not government regulators, and IBM made one disastrous mistake after another, starting with the PS/2. While MS was convicted of anti-trust, there wasn't much of any action taken against them. The reasons for them slipping would make for an interesting book.

IBMs fall began with the PC, which they made an open design explicitly because of anti-trust pressures. They lost control of the design and the market on PCs, which led to the rise of, well, most of the market since then. Your comments are wrong enough to be attempts at revision of history.

> IBMs fall began with the PC,

IBM was enormously successful with the PC, so successful that IBM was assumed throughout the 80's that they would continue to utterly dominate the desktop market. (See the humorous 1984 Apple ad for what people thought of IBM and the PC at the time.) Everyone quaked in their boots when a new PC was imminent.

> which they made an open design explicitly because of anti-trust pressures.

I haven't heard that before in histories of the PC I've read. The way I read it was IBM made it open to cut costs and because they didn't think the PC would be a big market.

Additionally, IBM closed the design of the later PS/2 and fenced it in with patents in order to continue dominating the PC market and fend off clones, which contradicts the idea that such behavior would entice anti-trust action.

Do you have a reference for your version?

Re: Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

#88

Post by bumby »

yes_man wrote: post #82
Findeton wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, it's bullshit. Not only that, but monopolies are not a bad thing, as long as they are not government granted ones.

A monopoly regulates supply to extract more money from the consumer than a competitive market could. What's the good parts?

They can avoid unnecessary redundant infrastructure as an example. Imagine trying to dig for construction when there are 30 potential cable companies running utilities underground.
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