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Was this Google Executive deeply misinformed or lying in the New York Times?

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Re: Was this Google Executive deeply misinformed or lying in the New York Times?

#11

Post by pessimizer »

Causality1 wrote: post #3

The way Youtube suggests videos has been borked in favor of sensationalism and popularity for a while now. It used to be if you were watching "Cooking Steak Part 2" the first suggested video was "Cooking Steak part 3" and the second suggested video was "Cooking Steak Part 1" and the third suggestion was "Cooking Chicken Part 1". Now it's a dead guarantee that not only will the suggested videos not be the next one in…

Good to know I'm not the only person that has to leave youtube and go to duckduckgo to find the next video of a clearly marked series on youtube.

Or failing that, go to the user page, try to stop the autoplay on time, go to the uploads page, and scroll around until I see it.

I will never cease to wonder what all of the talented programmers at google are actually doing all day.

Re: Was this Google Executive deeply misinformed or lying in the New York Times?

#12

Post by zawerf »

DannyBee wrote: post #5

For someone so pissed off about what they perceive as misinformation, there are simple facts here that are just false. "As background, Mohan first began working in the internet ad industry in 1997 at DoubleClick, which was aquired by Google for $3.1 billion in 2008. Mohan then served as SVP of display and video ads for Google for 7 years, before switching into the role of Chief Product Officer for Google’s YouTube."…

These are minor details that didn't detract from her overall argument. And you seem to have figured out the issue yourself, that she only got it wrong because Neal Mohan is misrepresenting himself on his linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/neal-mohan

Re: Was this Google Executive deeply misinformed or lying in the New York Times?

#13

Post by Dirlewanger »

I find it funny how worried the author is about YouTube is promoting "distrust of mainstream media". Not excusing all the crap YouTube will put in one's sidebar, but when we have mainstream outlets like Politico posting egregious and inexcusably racist hitpieces like this (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/05/24/bernie-sa..., also that title was changed from "Bernie Sanders might still be cheap, but he's not poor" -- I'd have never found out if it weren't for YouTube recommending me the fabulous Jimmy Dore Show who pointed this out), I don't know how you can continue to visit any website deemed mainstream anymore.

Re: Was this Google Executive deeply misinformed or lying in the New York Times?

#14

Post by pbiggar »

DannyBee wrote: post #5

For someone so pissed off about what they perceive as misinformation, there are simple facts here that are just false. "As background, Mohan first began working in the internet ad industry in 1997 at DoubleClick, which was aquired by Google for $3.1 billion in 2008. Mohan then served as SVP of display and video ads for Google for 7 years, before switching into the role of Chief Product Officer for Google’s YouTube."…

Really disappointed in this comment. Based on some nitpicking which isn't even correct [1], you're dismissing the entire article. Google's role in spreading conspiracy and hate is serious stuff, and given you're a googler, fairly prominent on HN, and from my past interactions and opinions of you, I expected much better than this.

[1] Not to get into the semantics of this, but when you say "when Google closed DoubleClick, he was " Product Management Director for Ad Serving, reporting to Susan Wojcicki, VP of Product Management."", that does not contradict text you quoted from the article. So the only claim you have is that the article called him an SVP for time when he was a VP.

Re: Was this Google Executive deeply misinformed or lying in the New York Times?

#15

Post by [deleted] »

DannyBee wrote: post #5

For someone so pissed off about what they perceive as misinformation, there are simple facts here that are just false. "As background, Mohan first began working in the internet ad industry in 1997 at DoubleClick, which was aquired by Google for $3.1 billion in 2008. Mohan then served as SVP of display and video ads for Google for 7 years, before switching into the role of Chief Product Officer for Google’s YouTube."…

[deleted]

Re: Was this Google Executive deeply misinformed or lying in the New York Times?

#16

Post by duckqlz »

I love how quick we are to blame the problem on an algorithm or poor moderation when it is clearly a systemic issue, where by, the demand for such content is driving its popularity which in turn increases the likelihood of suggestion. As a society it's as though we look at youtube through a chicken and egg style of viewing. Did YouTube radicalize society or was society always radicalized but less visible? Either way there clearly has to be some action beyond hiding the problem which can actually address the underlying issue.

Re: Was this Google Executive deeply misinformed or lying in the New York Times?

#17

Post by tropdrop »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #10

Is there some specific factual claim that the author believes was false, or does "lying" just refer to framing the issue differently than she'd prefer?

Claim is pretty straightforward. Mohan blames viewers and takes no accountability for any extremism on YouTube, repeatedly failing to acknowledge the role of autoplay. This paragraph summarizes it nicely:

"Even the reporter interviewing Mohan seemed surprised, at one point interrrupting him to clarify, “Sorry, can I just interrupt you there for a second? Just let me be clear: You’re saying that there is no rabbit hole effect on YouTube?” (The “rabbit hole effect” is when the recommendation system gradually recommends videos that are more and more extreme). In response, Mohan blamed users and still failed to give a straightforward answer."

Re: Was this Google Executive deeply misinformed or lying in the New York Times?

#18

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

tropdrop wrote: post #17
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #10

Is there some specific factual claim that the author believes was false, or does "lying" just refer to framing the issue differently than she'd prefer?

Claim is pretty straightforward. Mohan blames viewers and takes no accountability for any extremism on YouTube, repeatedly failing to acknowledge the role of autoplay. This paragraph summarizes it nicely: "Even the reporter interviewing Mohan seemed surprised, at one point interrrupting him to clarify, “Sorry, can I just interrupt you there for a second? Just let me be clear: You’re saying that there is no rabbit hol…

"Blamed users and failed to give a straightforward answer" sounds like more of a framing issue than a specific false claim Mohan made.

Re: Was this Google Executive deeply misinformed or lying in the New York Times?

#19

Post by thetrumanshow »

ggggtez wrote: post #9

Except... Have it been shown that Google did take action to change their algorithms to describe misinformation, at the cost of a stock market hit in January when they showed it decreased watch time? I can't figure out what the author is complaining about. They obviously are doing something , enough for it to hurt their own bottom line.

There's probably a wee bit of presumption in connecting the dots like this, but its an interesting set of dots to consider, and I wouldn't mind any supporting links you have on this, opinion pieces or otherwise.

Re: Was this Google Executive deeply misinformed or lying in the New York Times?

#20

Post by DannyBee »

pbiggar wrote: post #14
DannyBee wrote: post #5

For someone so pissed off about what they perceive as misinformation, there are simple facts here that are just false. "As background, Mohan first began working in the internet ad industry in 1997 at DoubleClick, which was aquired by Google for $3.1 billion in 2008. Mohan then served as SVP of display and video ads for Google for 7 years, before switching into the role of Chief Product Officer for Google’s YouTube."…

Really disappointed in this comment. Based on some nitpicking which isn't even correct [1], you're dismissing the entire article. Google's role in spreading conspiracy and hate is serious stuff, and given you're a googler, fairly prominent on HN, and from my past interactions and opinions of you, I expected much better than this. [1] Not to get into the semantics of this, but when you say "when Google closed DoubleCl…

It's not nitpicking. I spent a little time after I wrote this fact checking more, and i didn't edit to include the other clearly wrong facts in this article as a way of being nice to the author. Also, because i won't have a lot of time to be on HN today, and people take no response as a sign of "no good argument" instead of "not gonna spend all my time on a forum".

There are plenty of issues here to go around here. Go, try to verify facts yourself.

[1] This is wrong. "Mohan then served as SVP of display and video ads for Google for 7 years, " Then, as in, the 7 years after the doubleclick acquisition. That is wrong. He was not a VP, SVP, or in charge of display and video ads. He was in charge of one thing for a while, got promoted, and 7 years later, ended up SVP as both.

This shit matters. You are trying to argue essentially they could have just deleted this paragraph. Which I doubt. They are trying to make the point that this person has been a super senior person who has been doing this role a long time who should know better, and they simply haven't been.

If they want to make a correct and weaker argument, awesome, they are welcome to do that.

You don't get to just gloss over it.

Especially when taking other people to task for not apparently knowing something.

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