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Open Up vs. Break Up

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Re: Open Up vs. Break Up

#31
post #7

This is so uncreative. Besides conveniently forgetting how Twitter starved out its third party apps with breaking API changes, and Amazon's similar strong arming of smaller vendors and services, he doesn't seem to understand why that is bad. Breaking up a company is to address a singular problem - that there are too many interests being held under one roof. By breaking up, you are addressing a need for broader govern…

I'm assuming that he means the companies would be ordered by the force of court rulings and the law to supply the third parties equally and without prejudice.

A similar thing has happened in the UK with telecoms. The monopoly supplier of the phone network is gradually being split into a company which owns the wires in the ground but cannot offer services, and competing companies that rent the wires to provide services, the rental being at an open, non-discriminatory price. At least to some degree it works well (although the regulator needs a lot more teeth).

Re: Open Up vs. Break Up

#32
post #17
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nationalizing them is neither obvious nor a solution. Nationalizing them would make any problems, real or perceived, 100x worse.

It would be more persuasive if you actually made the argument, rather than just asserting the conclusion.

Responding in detail as to why nationalization is a bad idea is on the same level has responding to comment about why the earth is not flat.

The evidence is clear, widely known, and most sane people do not suggest we should nationalize things, nor that the earth is flat

Re: Open Up vs. Break Up

#33
“In mobile, a good first step is to open up the app stores and allow the browsers to have the same access to the operating system as native mobile apps.”

Yeah no, I don’t want just any website to have native control over my phone. That’s just asking for trouble

Re: Open Up vs. Break Up

#34
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating way too many things and oversimplifying the whole situation into a fictitious idea of conflicting mindsets. First of all, you're treating two very different types of services as equal and identical. Netflix and Hulu are subscription content providers. Google and Facebook can be defined and described in many ways, but subscription content providers is not among them [1]. It's quite natural and unders…

I think part of the difference in HN opinion color is somewhat related to transparency. Subscription content business models are straightforward and marketed as such: $ for access. Ad supported business models are... murkier. And I'd say Google and Facebook haven't done a sufficient job in proactively informing the public about what they collect, how they generate revenue from it, and what's currently stored about a…

> I think part of the difference in HN opinion color is somewhat related to transparency.

It's not that I disagree with you on the topic of transparency, it's that I think we can't really compare opinions on two very different topics as if they were the same topic. People complaining about too many subscription content providers are not really arguing for or against a monopoly. It's not the same discussion.

> And I'd say Google and Facebook haven't done a sufficient job in proactively informing the public about what they collect, how they generate revenue from it, and what's currently stored about a user.

Granted, but I'm pretty sure that even if they did so, it wouldn't make much difference. I always refer people to Moxie Marlinspike's DEF CON keynote called "Changing threats to privacy" [1]. I would definitely recommend watching it in full, but the key takeaway from it -- for the purposes of this discussion -- is that it all boils down to choice. He talks about the way technology changes the fabric of the society, how it changes the way people interact, communicate and coordinate, and declining to participate in this new way of doing things exposes you to the "no network effect".

This is why it's not enough for Google and Facebook to merely inform people about what they collect and how they use it. As long as they're practically monopolies, they can disclose and inform and then go on just the same, because there's no other viable alternative and they'll work hard to ensure it stays that way.

The traditional way of dealing with an incumbent that is too powerful to reasonably compete with is to break it up, in hopes of diminishing not its power to compete, but rather its power to stifle competition.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG0KrT6pBPk

Re: Open Up vs. Break Up

#35
post #32
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be more persuasive if you actually made the argument, rather than just asserting the conclusion.

Responding in detail as to why nationalization is a bad idea is on the same level has responding to comment about why the earth is not flat. The evidence is clear, widely known, and most sane people do not suggest we should nationalize things, nor that the earth is flat

You seem to think that every highly developed country is insane (other than the US)...

http://factmyth.com/factoids/the-us-is-the-only-very-highly-...

Re: Open Up vs. Break Up

#36
I wonder how much annually these monopolies collectively spend on lobbying gov against the populist temptation to break them up? Huge sums i assume. Huge.

I would first favour opening them up, see how it goes, and then consider alternative approaches if the desired outcome is not seen. I think it's critical to have a very clear idea of what the desired outcome would be before taking action. That would require a 20/ 20 view of what the problems are, but the monopolies are working hard to hide the problems from view. Google tries to present itself as not being a search dominant corporation (the Alphabet deception). Facebook is now a very big book and definitely needs 'editing'.

Re: Open Up vs. Break Up

#37
post #35
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Responding in detail as to why nationalization is a bad idea is on the same level has responding to comment about why the earth is not flat. The evidence is clear, widely known, and most sane people do not suggest we should nationalize things, nor that the earth is flat

You seem to think that every highly developed country is insane (other than the US)... http://factmyth.com/factoids/the-us-is-the-only-very-highly-...

>>You seem to think that every highly developed country is insane (other than the US)...

You are correct I do. Time will prove me right as well given that most of those nations have very real and every systemic issues with their healthcare system that are pushed under the rug and never talked about because it goes against the narrative that Government run healthcare is best thing ever

Re: Open Up vs. Break Up

#38
A DOJ requirement to divest assets is one extreme, while a requirement to spinoff assets and have them operate autonomously could unlock even greater value for a parent company. What’s App, Instagram, You Tube, etc., trading as separate stocks could spread market share and in theory create more competition, while not diluting, and possibly increasing, overall corp value. A not likely scenario, but perhaps a possible one.

Re: Open Up vs. Break Up

#39
post #37
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to think that every highly developed country is insane (other than the US)... http://factmyth.com/factoids/the-us-is-the-only-very-highly-...

>>You seem to think that every highly developed country is insane (other than the US)... You are correct I do. Time will prove me right as well given that most of those nations have very real and every systemic issues with their healthcare system that are pushed under the rug and never talked about because it goes against the narrative that Government run healthcare is best thing ever

What are these issues? Their outcomes are better than ours, and they pay less per person.

The UK has had nationalized health care for 70 years. Sweden, Iceland, Norway, Denmark, and Finland are not far behind (50+ years for each of those).

If these problems you're describing were caused by nationalization, wouldn't we have seen them already? 50-70 years is a remarkably long time for a national social program to run without running into any fatal issues.

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