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Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

citylab.com

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Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#81

Post by crisnoble »

daenz wrote: post #58
RankingMember wrote: post #47

I yearn to see a city in the US make its city center area car-free for a year (not a weekend thing as has been done already) just to see how it goes over the course of a year or so. Cars won't disappear, so there'll need to be some kind of parking on the outskirts, but I just want to see if it's feasible (admittedly I want it to be, but am willing to be proven wrong).

It would be cool if—even for a day— cars drove on odd number streets, bikes on even number. Being able to freely move down the street on a bike without worrying about imminent death at all times would be such a huge stress reliever.

Riding a marathon course after the roads are closed, and parked cars are moved, but well before the start of the race, is an absolutely amazing experience.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#82

Post by dsfyu404ed »

amalcon wrote: post #14
wefarrell wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In NYC I think they're counterproductive to safety. Cars use them for temporary parking and pedestrians use them as a sidewalk. When I visit Europe and Japan they seem to be far more effective. I think it comes down to etiquette and that goes both ways - non cyclists need to respect bike lanes and cyclists need to obey traffic laws. Admittedly I don't obey traffic laws when cycling, but I would if they were enforced.

What factor do you believe explains the 78% drop in deaths and serious injuries per bicycle trip in NYC from 2000-2017? https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/nyc-cycling-risk... I'm legitimately curious. I'm not a New Yorker, so it's very plausible that there are factors involved that I'm not aware of. E.g. if the additional 130 million trips in 2017 are all in Central Park, that could explain it.

There's some study that's popular to post around here (maybe someone has the link, I don't have it) but the gist of it is that in the past few years they identified the dangerous intersections and changed them up to make them less dangerous.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#83

Post by wefarrell »

amalcon wrote: post #14
wefarrell wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In NYC I think they're counterproductive to safety. Cars use them for temporary parking and pedestrians use them as a sidewalk. When I visit Europe and Japan they seem to be far more effective. I think it comes down to etiquette and that goes both ways - non cyclists need to respect bike lanes and cyclists need to obey traffic laws. Admittedly I don't obey traffic laws when cycling, but I would if they were enforced.

What factor do you believe explains the 78% drop in deaths and serious injuries per bicycle trip in NYC from 2000-2017? https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/nyc-cycling-risk... I'm legitimately curious. I'm not a New Yorker, so it's very plausible that there are factors involved that I'm not aware of. E.g. if the additional 130 million trips in 2017 are all in Central Park, that could explain it.

I've only been biking here the last 6 years so it's hard to speculate, but I would guess that the number of people biking have forced cars to adjust.

It's pretty rare for me to feel like I'm at risk of being hit by a car and anytime they don't notice me it's because I'm in their blind spot, which I now know to be aware of.

Pedestrians are another story. They will cross streets and watch out for cars but not cyclists. I almost killed a small child when her mother directed her into the bike lane (without looking) in order to get around some obstacle on the side walk. Pedestrians do not pay attention and are frequently on their phones.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#84

Post by wefarrell »

hannasanarion wrote: post #22
wefarrell wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In NYC I think they're counterproductive to safety. Cars use them for temporary parking and pedestrians use them as a sidewalk. When I visit Europe and Japan they seem to be far more effective. I think it comes down to etiquette and that goes both ways - non cyclists need to respect bike lanes and cyclists need to obey traffic laws. Admittedly I don't obey traffic laws when cycling, but I would if they were enforced.

>Cars use them for temporary parking How? If cars can get into the bike lane, then it's not protected.

Do a google search for NYC bike lane and you'll see there are varying levels of protection, many of which do not prevent temporary parking.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#85

Post by WhompingWindows »

fhbdukfrh wrote: post #8
WhompingWindows wrote: post #3

I ride extensively around the Providence, RI area. Cars are simply a scourge to biking here, at a time when we need less global and local pollution and we need to improve health via air quality and exercise. We have VERY few protected lanes, mostly there are "sharrows" aka faded pictures of bikes on the road that do absolutely zilch. I am routinely honked at and ignorant/rude people yell things out of their car windo…

I agree with your general sentiment, but don't think people on electric bikes are going to improve the situation, rather make it much, much worse based on the electric bike share pilot in my city. Someone who owns their ebike might be better, but those on shared bikes are a danger to everyone and never wear a helmet.

In the city itself, I don't think ebike vs regular bike is the lynch-pin issue. But if we want to set up intra-city transport networks, if I want to go from Providence to Boston for instance, that's 50 miles which is way too much of a workout. If I have an e-bike, however, that extends my "comfortable" riding range from around 15-20 now to 50+ easily. For intra-city transport on protected paths, I think e-bikes will be a great revolution.

Within cities themselves, we simply need to get smaller cars, autonomous probably would help, less car-trips overall, less parked cars, and with raised/separated bike lanes like Holland. Eventually, with more and more riders and good education, we could have regions of the USA with strong bike transport.

Imagine, for instance, if we established certain roads/streets for non-car travel only. I'd expect a massive flourishing of businesses, increased walkability, better air quality, more room for greenery/outdoor tables and events, all due to taking one street here or there off the car-grid. Take Chicago or NYC for instance, they have numerous parallel streets, incredibly redundant network, cars could go around these non-car roads with ease.

As of right now, cars dominate all of southern New England except for the Cambridge area.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#86

Post by wefarrell »

chapium wrote: post #41
wefarrell wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In NYC I think they're counterproductive to safety. Cars use them for temporary parking and pedestrians use them as a sidewalk. When I visit Europe and Japan they seem to be far more effective. I think it comes down to etiquette and that goes both ways - non cyclists need to respect bike lanes and cyclists need to obey traffic laws. Admittedly I don't obey traffic laws when cycling, but I would if they were enforced.

"Protected" usually means thatbthere is a physical barrier, not just painted lines.

Frequently it's a physical barrier that springs back up when hit and does not prevent cars from parking. Here's an example: http://nyc.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/grand-...

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#87

Post by alistairSH »

ben7799 wrote: post #40

As a long time long distance cyclist an awfully lot of these lanes, both protected and painted/"sharrow" are really frightening. There is an anti-car/pro-bike lane group of researchers who want to push this style of road design super hard right now at all costs. There are still major problems with their designs though, they are working from the assumption cyclists won't learn to follow the rules of the road. Tell me…

Dutch style protected lanes. 1:55 if you only want to see the left turn... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlApbxLz6pA

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#88

Post by ultrarunner »

Xylakant wrote: post #57
ben7799 wrote: post #40

As a long time long distance cyclist an awfully lot of these lanes, both protected and painted/"sharrow" are really frightening. There is an anti-car/pro-bike lane group of researchers who want to push this style of road design super hard right now at all costs. There are still major problems with their designs though, they are working from the assumption cyclists won't learn to follow the rules of the road. Tell me…

The issue is that protected bike lanes are not designed for you or me, I prefer riding in traffic, too. They are designed for people with less active riding styles. Elderly people, kids, women. For them the trade off works: spend a little more time on turns and crossings, be safe from cars overtaking close. In the end, it doesn’t even really matter if their fear is rational or not, it prevents that demographic from c…

You're probably right, which further underscores GP's position. At least where I am there are zero elderly people or kids riding in protected bike lanes. Older folks simply do not ride outside retirement parks in any appreciable capacity, and children are ostensibly not allowed to ride outside their residential neighborhoods. I'm afraid that continuing to design infrastructure in favor of groups who have no interest in it will result in a whole lot of wasted effort without solving any problems.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#89

Post by Johnny555 »

jackcarter wrote: post #75
gpm wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normal cyclist helmet. It causes more wind noise and generally messes up directionality because there is something above your ears. A rear view mirror might change my decision, I keep intending to try some of those out.

I built one myself with some spare parts. I love it, to the point that I wear my helmet for short trips when I otherwise wouldn't bother. It's modeled after this one: https://www.efficientvelo.com/home/safezone The key component is the flexible, stays-where-you-put-it arm. Safezone is repurposing an industrial product called "coolant hose" - a 1-ft length costs less than $5. Epoxy a small mirror to the end, and attac…

I tried some helmet mounted mirrors, but they moved around too much for me, so I switched to this eyeglass frame mounted mirror:

http://travellingtwo.com/resources/take-a-look-mirror

It's simple to clip on, and stays put once it is, I've been using this mirror for over 5 years and feel uncomfortable riding without it.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#90

Post by pedantsamaritan »

ben7799 wrote: post #40

As a long time long distance cyclist an awfully lot of these lanes, both protected and painted/"sharrow" are really frightening. There is an anti-car/pro-bike lane group of researchers who want to push this style of road design super hard right now at all costs. There are still major problems with their designs though, they are working from the assumption cyclists won't learn to follow the rules of the road. Tell me…

What specific style of road design are you talking about? There are a variety of bike lanes with various compromises. I've seen DOT presentations consider the situation, not pushing a certain design at all costs.

There are multiple methods of left turns: https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/a/54628/37462. From the bit I can gather from your post, I might use the "cross, stop, and pivot".

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