Software Patents Shut Down RunwayFinder • Hacker News Board

Re: Software Patents Shut Down RunwayFinder

#31

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Wed, Dec 15, 2010, 4:36 PM UTC

Zak wrote: post #6

madars wrote: post #2

The patent in question is http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7640098.html (source: http://news.priorsmart.com/stenbock-everson-v-runwayfinder-l... )

To summarize: it's a patent on the idea of overlaying a flight plan on a map using a website. The general case of this is drawing line-segments on a background, something every trivial paint program can do. This patent clearly fails the obviousness test.

But the problem is that you can't summarize a legal document like this if you want to make complete sense of it. Every sentence has to be evaluated on its own merit.

Every patent I've read (IANAL, but I have read a number of patents over a couple of years of helping our lawyers challenge the USPTO) requires very careful reading to understand and evaluate all the claims.

Re: Software Patents Shut Down RunwayFinder

#32

Post by sdizdar » Wed, Dec 15, 2010, 4:46 PM UTC

I believe that FlightPrep has a valid business plan. They have patent in order to prevent commoditization (i.e., giving away things for free) of their market. So they sue all free providers and if there is somebody with real money (like Jeppesen) they understand they cannot go after them.

I think this something each copmany should do when entering a niche market which can be easily commoditized.

Re: Software Patents Shut Down RunwayFinder

#33

Post by flipbrad » Wed, Dec 15, 2010, 4:49 PM UTC

I supposed it could be a big boost for FOSS if the remedy for IP infringement wasn't damages calculated on expected (lost) sales, but an account for profits; so you'd hand over the profit you made from infringing this patent (rather than - hand over what we can convince a judge we would have made if we didn't have to compete with a cheaper product)

Re: Software Patents Shut Down RunwayFinder

#34

Post by soitgoes » Wed, Dec 15, 2010, 4:49 PM UTC

lutorm wrote: post #20

Is RunwayFinder the open-source flight planner? If so, it seems anyone can just run it by itself? Is the source out there? I bet they wouldn't send lawsuits to all their potential customers.

If it is open source, does the community provide any support to developers that find themselves in this situation? Perhaps the EFF or the legal team of an open source friendly company?

Re: Software Patents Shut Down RunwayFinder

#35

Post by jessriedel » Wed, Dec 15, 2010, 4:53 PM UTC

blantonl wrote: post #26

FlightPrep, the patent owner, posted this response to the issue: http://blog.flightprep.com/2010/12/regarding-runwayfinder-sh...

Definitely good to see the other side's response, but the post immediately prompts the question: what does Parsons stand to gain if he is shutting down RunwayFinder in order to "try this case in the court of public opinion" as FlightPrep claims (rather than simply to avoid getting sued over his hobby)?

Re: Software Patents Shut Down RunwayFinder

#36

Post by jeffmould » Wed, Dec 15, 2010, 4:54 PM UTC

From the patent, in the "Background of Invention" section:

However, as will become obvious later, additional applications of this invention may also include the field of cartography, route planning for motor vehicles, marine vehicles and similar utilization.

So does this mean they could potentially go after MapQuest or Google Maps for providing route planning for motor vehicles as well?

Re: Software Patents Shut Down RunwayFinder

#37

Post by aidenn0 » Wed, Dec 15, 2010, 4:56 PM UTC

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #30

Vivtek wrote: post #11

Oh, good Lord, when the patent was filed, RunwayFinder was already online . Talk about prior art! This kind of abuse just boils my blood, especially when it involves this kind of penny-ante bullshit, the whole rent-seeking mentality of identifying a niche market that could really benefit from more open information and then trying to dominate it for chump change.

when the patent was filed, RunwayFinder was already online Doesn't matter. Patents are awarded by first to invent not first to file .

In the US that is true, but in Europe it's first to file

Re: Software Patents Shut Down RunwayFinder

#38

Post by pierrefar » Wed, Dec 15, 2010, 4:56 PM UTC

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #30

Vivtek wrote: post #11

Oh, good Lord, when the patent was filed, RunwayFinder was already online . Talk about prior art! This kind of abuse just boils my blood, especially when it involves this kind of penny-ante bullshit, the whole rent-seeking mentality of identifying a niche market that could really benefit from more open information and then trying to dominate it for chump change.

when the patent was filed, RunwayFinder was already online Doesn't matter. Patents are awarded by first to invent not first to file .

Depends on where you are in the world. The European Patent Office explains:

Virtually every patent office in the world (including the EPO and the JPO) is based on a first-to-file system. ... The USPTO, however, is the only office to be based on a first-to-invent system, meaning that a patent is granted to the person who first conceived and practiced the invention, rather than to the person who first filed the invention with authorities.

http://www.epo.org/topics/patent-system/patents-around-the-w...

Re: Software Patents Shut Down RunwayFinder

#39

Post by acdha » Wed, Dec 15, 2010, 4:57 PM UTC

jeffmould wrote: post #36

From the patent, in the "Background of Invention" section: However, as will become obvious later, additional applications of this invention may also include the field of cartography, route planning for motor vehicles, marine vehicles and similar utilization. So does this mean they could potentially go after MapQuest or Google Maps for providing route planning for motor vehicles as well?

Standard rules for patent trolls: that'll happen later. They're going after little guys now so they can go into a case like that and claim that their patent must be good - just look at how many other companies paid up!

Re: Software Patents Shut Down RunwayFinder

#40

Post by cduan » Wed, Dec 15, 2010, 4:59 PM UTC

Vivtek wrote: post #11

Oh, good Lord, when the patent was filed, RunwayFinder was already online . Talk about prior art! This kind of abuse just boils my blood, especially when it involves this kind of penny-ante bullshit, the whole rent-seeking mentality of identifying a niche market that could really benefit from more open information and then trying to dominate it for chump change.

This line in the patent:

  This is a divisional of application Ser. No. 09/919,672, filed Jul. 31, 2001.

means that it was effectively filed on that date, so you would need prior art predating 2001. (Though it might be more complicated than that, it depends on a couple of things.)