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Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

citylab.com

51–60 of 199 posts

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#51
I bike commute all the time and I want to share an experience from yesterday that EVERY cyclist will get. (I live in the PNW, so there are a lot of people that bike here)

I was sitting at a stop sign, in a lane that has sharrows. Waiting for a car to go by I feel a push from behind and get almost pushed into the car I'm waiting for (my hands aren't on the breaks, by feet are on the ground). Adrenaline skyrockets, I look back see this guy not really concerned, I look down at my bike, then back up at him, and just say "Dude, what the fuck?" (not really yelling, trying to stay calm). The guy's response "Chill out, it was an accident." Of course at this point I flip out.

To be honest, this is one of the better experiences I've had when cars almost seriously injure me.[0] There is a frequent challenge of avoiding doors being opened on you while also not pissing off the car following you in the sharrow road. Of getting out of intersections as fast as possible (because getting hit at a stop sign is pretty common). Avoiding pedestrians that step right off the curb into you. I ride without headphones because I have to be aware.

I have found that riding in protected bike lanes, a lot of this decreases. There is extra space for me at stop signs/lights, drivers have to stop sooner. Cars are parking out, and are more likely to look before they open their door. Pedestrians notice something is off and actually look both ways before stepping off the curb. I think the green painting helps too. Honestly I feel A LOT safer in a protected bike lane.

[0] worst experience is that this guy cut me off, almost hitting me, I flipped him off and he proceeded to try to hit me with his car. As in he got behind me and came over into the bike lane. I bailed into the sidewalk and he hit the curb, then he drives off.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#52
In NL the country is full with separate bycicle infrastructure, making it a paradise for cyclers.

"Cycling is a common mode of transport in the Netherlands, with 36% of the people listing the bicycle as their most frequent mode of transport on a typical day as opposed to the car by 45% and public transport by 11%."

"Some 35,000 km of cycle-track has been physically segregated from motor traffic, equal to a quarter of the country's entire 140,000 km road network."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_the_Netherlands

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#53
post #40

As a long time long distance cyclist an awfully lot of these lanes, both protected and painted/"sharrow" are really frightening. There is an anti-car/pro-bike lane group of researchers who want to push this style of road design super hard right now at all costs. There are still major problems with their designs though, they are working from the assumption cyclists won't learn to follow the rules of the road. Tell me…

As a bike commuter who's not exactly in Tour de France riding condition, I whole-heartedly love what few physically protected bike lanes there are in my city. They've greatly extended the range of places I feel comfortable riding my bike. I don't know if I'll ever be in good enough shape to feel comfortable claiming a lane and riding in traffic anywhere but neighborhoods and steep downhills. Yeah, it's a pain to turn left from a physically protected lane on the right, but those small delays are totally worth the added safety of the curb/whatever.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#54
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wearing a helmet increases your chance of death on a bike according to the statistics. I personally don't, I feel less safe wearing one. I can't locate cars as accurately with audio with one on my head, the extra weight makesy head turn slower, and I think subconsciously left often. Drivers pass more aggressively and illegally (most drivers passing break the law here that requires a meter seperation when passing a cy…

Are you wearing a motorcycle helmet? My bike helmet doesn't touch my ears and weighs around 300g, about 5% of the 5 kg weight of a human head -- I can't tell the difference between turning my head with and without a helmet, but it doesn't matter much on the road since I use a rear-view mirror on my glasses so I look behind me much more often than if I had to turn my head every time.

Normal cyclist helmet. It causes more wind noise and generally messes up directionality because there is something above your ears.

A rear view mirror might change my decision, I keep intending to try some of those out.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#55
post #40

As a long time long distance cyclist an awfully lot of these lanes, both protected and painted/"sharrow" are really frightening. There is an anti-car/pro-bike lane group of researchers who want to push this style of road design super hard right now at all costs. There are still major problems with their designs though, they are working from the assumption cyclists won't learn to follow the rules of the road. Tell me…

> This stuff is plainly obvious when you've rode 10s or 100s of times more miles than the researchers. I'd argue, the points you make are 100% obvious if you've ever been through any intersection on a bicycle and needed to go straight or left from one of these lanes. You don't need 'research' when something is obviously stupid, but that seems to be something we've forgotten as a society. Around me, they put these 'bi…

Yes I would say you're right and this stuff should be obvious immediately to any adult, especially one who also knows how to drive a car.

But watching the behavior of "people on bikes" who are not "established cyclists" it seems as soon as everyone gets on a bike they initially go through a period of forgetting everything about how the road works, probably because they are super afraid of the cars. I don't think you really can blame them, fear is a very real & serious thing and it makes us all forget how to think things through. You have to get through a period where someone educates you and you get your bearings enough to get rid of the fear and have the basics ingrained enough you can start to think clearly about your behavior. It's no different than the process someone goes through in all kinds of other activities which can be super dangerous without training. People go through this process for sure with swimming for example.

I had the correct way of doing things drilled into me from an early age as I am not the first generation of my family to decide it's fun & worthwhile to ride thousands and thousands of miles/yr. So by the time I was an adult I just had to learn the extra stuff around big huge multi-lane roads and city intersections. I'd gotten all the basics drilled into me from at least a decade of riding on suburban roads and being told when I was doing it wrong.

I am trying to gradually introduce the rules of the road and correct cycling behavior to my own son now, that started right after he got off training wheels.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#56
post #27
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wearing a helmet increases your chance of death on a bike according to the statistics. I personally don't, I feel less safe wearing one. I can't locate cars as accurately with audio with one on my head, the extra weight makesy head turn slower, and I think subconsciously left often. Drivers pass more aggressively and illegally (most drivers passing break the law here that requires a meter seperation when passing a cy…

Fairly certain that's bullshit. https://www.iihs.org/topics/pedestrians-and-bicyclists

Helmets protect you somewhat if you crash but are correlated with a significance increase in number of crashes. That page only addresses the first number.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#57
post #40

As a long time long distance cyclist an awfully lot of these lanes, both protected and painted/"sharrow" are really frightening. There is an anti-car/pro-bike lane group of researchers who want to push this style of road design super hard right now at all costs. There are still major problems with their designs though, they are working from the assumption cyclists won't learn to follow the rules of the road. Tell me…

The issue is that protected bike lanes are not designed for you or me, I prefer riding in traffic, too. They are designed for people with less active riding styles. Elderly people, kids, women. For them the trade off works: spend a little more time on turns and crossings, be safe from cars overtaking close. In the end, it doesn’t even really matter if their fear is rational or not, it prevents that demographic from cycling. And to be an effective mode of transport, cycling needs to feel safe for everyone. The Dutch have that figured out.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#58

I yearn to see a city in the US make its city center area car-free for a year (not a weekend thing as has been done already) just to see how it goes over the course of a year or so. Cars won't disappear, so there'll need to be some kind of parking on the outskirts, but I just want to see if it's feasible (admittedly I want it to be, but am willing to be proven wrong).

It would be cool if—even for a day— cars drove on odd number streets, bikes on even number. Being able to freely move down the street on a bike without worrying about imminent death at all times would be such a huge stress reliever.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#59
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your general sentiment, but don't think people on electric bikes are going to improve the situation, rather make it much, much worse based on the electric bike share pilot in my city. Someone who owns their ebike might be better, but those on shared bikes are a danger to everyone and never wear a helmet.

Wearing a helmet increases your chance of death on a bike according to the statistics. I personally don't, I feel less safe wearing one. I can't locate cars as accurately with audio with one on my head, the extra weight makesy head turn slower, and I think subconsciously left often. Drivers pass more aggressively and illegally (most drivers passing break the law here that requires a meter seperation when passing a cy…

> Wearing a helmet increases your chance of death on a bike according to the statistics.

Completely untrue. Bike helmets do increase the risk of concussion but decrease the risk of other serious injuries or death.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#60
post #40

As a long time long distance cyclist an awfully lot of these lanes, both protected and painted/"sharrow" are really frightening. There is an anti-car/pro-bike lane group of researchers who want to push this style of road design super hard right now at all costs. There are still major problems with their designs though, they are working from the assumption cyclists won't learn to follow the rules of the road. Tell me…

Here in SF many protected bike lanes cross over at intersections so they are to the left of the right-turn lane.

Of course then you have the nerve-wrecking problem of what happens in the crossover zone. You are approaching cars in their biggest blindspot (rear right) and they are actively driving over your lane.

I don’t think there’s a safe solution to this problem at all other than maybe saying bicycles are full participants in traffic and should go everywhere. Then making sure there’s no such thing as a 45mph (or even 30mph) road in the city unless it’s isolated and bicyclists aren’t allowed on it. Ie, it isn’t a street, but a road road. No sidewalks, no crosswalks, no bikes, on/off ramps

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