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Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

cpj.org

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Re: Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

#21

Post by komali2 »

> Once they do that, Facebook promises, by June, that this will inform the Facebook's algorithm so that it will stop being preferred to show on people's newsfeed, but it's not censorship. If you look specifically for that friend, that post is still there, but they have a warning that says it's already fact-checked as false.

That'd be very interesting if the Taiwanese government was in direct communication with Facebook over something like this. CPJ wasn't able to get a hold of Facebook, I wonder if anyone here has visibility into something like that? Given that the US government took a more "combative" approach (dragging executives in front of Congress) I'd be curious how more tame approaches like this were being received.

Re: Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

#22

Post by pcwalton »

komali2 wrote: post #16
dominicl wrote: post #3

Great approach, and a smart minister. Living in Taipei I can only congratulate the country for this lively and young democracy. If you consider moving to Asia, Taiwan is the most forward, fair and open society.

I'll second that. I was there during the sunflower protests. Student activist sat in the parliament building for a couple days. The entire country rallied to their cause. Restaurants sent food, small shops (Taiwanese equivalent of Bodega) donated water, businesses sent pillows and blankets. If you tried that in China,you'd be sent to a xinjiang reeducation camp. At the very least. A common PRC propagandic trope is th…

> A common PRC propagandic trope is that the ten thousand years of Chinese history doesn't lend the culture to democracy. That the culture is simply incompatible with the concept - the people need autocracy. Taiwan is a shining and obvious example otherwise.

Totally agreed. The sentiment appears on HN regularly and it's extremely annoying when there's such an obvious counterexample.

Re: Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

#23

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

mc32 wrote: post #9

Tang speaks of propaganda and disinformation and how historic propaganda by the government is more or less indistinguishable from disinformation at least by a significant segment of the population. ...But she says that to combat disinformation campaigns the government ministries are in charge of pre-empting disinformation by disseminating their version of information... But that seems like a contradiction. Government…

What happens when the misinformation is coming from inside the government? A problem in, for example, the UK, where there is an internal conflict within the Cabinet over Brexit, and where ministers are willing to spout some things that are, frankly, bullshit.

Re: Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

#24

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

mc32 wrote: post #9

Tang speaks of propaganda and disinformation and how historic propaganda by the government is more or less indistinguishable from disinformation at least by a significant segment of the population. ...But she says that to combat disinformation campaigns the government ministries are in charge of pre-empting disinformation by disseminating their version of information... But that seems like a contradiction. Government…

"propaganda (n.) information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view."

If the Taiwanese government ministries were putting out information _of a misleading or slanted nature_ in their official capacity, the press and public would rightly call them out on it.

Re: Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

#26

Post by kijin »

mc32 wrote: post #9

Tang speaks of propaganda and disinformation and how historic propaganda by the government is more or less indistinguishable from disinformation at least by a significant segment of the population. ...But she says that to combat disinformation campaigns the government ministries are in charge of pre-empting disinformation by disseminating their version of information... But that seems like a contradiction. Government…

It is ultimately up to the people to decide which side of the story to believe. All the usual heuristics apply: Do they have a history of lying? Are they acting as if they're trying to save their own asses? Did they just casually forget to mention a piece of information that happens to contradict their argument?

Governments are often so awful at passing this test that even when they're telling the truth, a lot of people would rather believe crazy conspiracy theories. This is especially problematic in countries with a recent history of dictatorship like Taiwan and South Korea. If Ms. Tang can instill in her ministry a culture of responding quickly, effectively, and earnestly to current issues, that would be a major contribution to the public discourse even if the government isn't always truthful.

Also, this is Taiwan, not PRC. Very different government.

Re: Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

#27

Post by w8vY7ER »

NotPaidToPost wrote: post #11
mc32 wrote: post #9

Tang speaks of propaganda and disinformation and how historic propaganda by the government is more or less indistinguishable from disinformation at least by a significant segment of the population. ...But she says that to combat disinformation campaigns the government ministries are in charge of pre-empting disinformation by disseminating their version of information... But that seems like a contradiction. Government…

Absolutely, it is simply fighting the adversary's propaganda with your own. Plus ca change...

I would posit that this differs _significantly_ as it's being done with transparency and the motives for it are being clearly expressed by those pursuing the efforts. This stands in stark contrast to the assumed and obviously nefarious motives of those responsible for the disinformation. What better approach, I wonder?

Re: Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

#28

Post by mc32 »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #24
mc32 wrote: post #9

Tang speaks of propaganda and disinformation and how historic propaganda by the government is more or less indistinguishable from disinformation at least by a significant segment of the population. ...But she says that to combat disinformation campaigns the government ministries are in charge of pre-empting disinformation by disseminating their version of information... But that seems like a contradiction. Government…

" propaganda (n.) information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view. " If the Taiwanese government ministries were putting out information _of a misleading or slanted nature_ in their official capacity, the press and public would rightly call them out on it.

But the minister herself indicates the government did just that in the past

Beside, if the press and public could and would call out government propaganda (which according to the minister is pretty much indistinguishable from disinformation) why would they need the government to pre-empt and counter it if it's easy to spot?

Re: Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

#30

Post by CharlesColeman »

mc32 wrote: post #9

Tang speaks of propaganda and disinformation and how historic propaganda by the government is more or less indistinguishable from disinformation at least by a significant segment of the population. ...But she says that to combat disinformation campaigns the government ministries are in charge of pre-empting disinformation by disseminating their version of information... But that seems like a contradiction. Government…

> How is that reconciled? How does one know when the government is being truthful versus being propagandists?

If there are multiple conflicting narratives, at least some people will be motivated to do more research to resolve the contradiction. If the government is being more truthful, its statements can point to resources that provide independent verification, accelerating the process. At a minimum that will blunt the effect of the lies.

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