A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean • Hacker News Board

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#131

Post by infinisil » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 2:19 PM UTC

bduerst wrote: post #124

ekianjo wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can basically say that anyone living 500 years ago would say "there is zero chance" that what we take for granted today exists at all. Look at the technological achievements of even the past 50 years, most of it could hardly be predicted.

By this logic, we don't even need to freeze the body. Simply opt in to being resimulated later, since the technology will exist "some day".

However, this won't bring you back, it will just bring back a clone that is exactly like you.

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#132

Post by Zenbit_UX » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 2:24 PM UTC

ChrisRR wrote: post #86

the_pwner224 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flash freezing (using liquid nitrogen to freeze something really quickly) is used successfully for smaller objects, such as frozen berries and frozen vegetables that you can buy at the grocery store. The Wikipedia page on flash freezing links to this [0] site with some more discussion. The Wiki page also says that flash freezing still can take a few hours, so there are still ice crystals created, but a lot less/small…

Even speaking as a brit, your mixture of metric and imperial and metric fascinates me. I personally would've written 150lb, 6'6 tall, 1ft deep, 37 to 0 degrees

Tell tale sign of a Canadian.

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#133

Post by idlewords » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 2:26 PM UTC

Swifty wrote: post #106

idlewords wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is correct; scuba divers are trained to do a controlled emergency ascent while continuously exhaling, because your lungful of air at depth will last the whole way up, and the real risk is not running out of air, but embolism from overexpansion. The limiting factor in ascent (and therefore the reason for the recreational dive limit of 60 feet) is the risk of decompression sickness. If it weren't for that, a diver…

This is not entirely true, not all agencies teach a Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent (CESA). From memory the only one that teaches this is PADI. Most don't as this is not a very effective or safe way of getting up once you get bellow a few M of water. Most agency's will teach you to do an Alternate Source assent where you come up breathing of your buddy's air source, as this allows you to come up at a safer and m…

Everybody trains you to not hold your breath while ascending, because this is the easiest way to die doing scuba.

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#134

Post by diveanon » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 2:27 PM UTC

folkrav wrote: post #116

dig1 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nitrogen narcosis is usually called "drunkenness of depth" (if I translate this correctly), because it produce effect like you are drunk. I've seen and heard many stories of experienced divers that would do silly things due this effect; that is why you always have to have partner with you and the rest of the crew near by. This effect is highly dependent of person and I've seen guys goes beyond 40m without getting thi…

I'm no professional diver, but did a bunch of dives between 60-100ft, and it seems like it can start happening to me around 70-80ft. Experienced divers will be more conscious about when it happens to them, and will plan their actions accordingly. It's pretty eerie. It's _literally_ like being drunk, but you happen to be strapped to an oxygen tank with 100ft of water over your head, and could get extremely sick if you…

I have had it happen as shallow as 10m (33ft).

It really depends on your physical readiness before the dive.

Lack of sleep, being hungover, hunger, dehydration can all contribute to narcosis.

Fortunately it is pretty hard to miss once you have experienced it a few times.

If you ever experience just go up a couple meters and the symptoms should dissipate.

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#135

Post by diveanon » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 2:29 PM UTC

redler wrote: post #127

dig1 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nitrogen narcosis is usually called "drunkenness of depth" (if I translate this correctly), because it produce effect like you are drunk. I've seen and heard many stories of experienced divers that would do silly things due this effect; that is why you always have to have partner with you and the rest of the crew near by. This effect is highly dependent of person and I've seen guys goes beyond 40m without getting thi…

When teaching students about the effects of depth on cognition, one fun trick is to give them a couple of combination locks attached to a slate (with the combinations written on the slate). Time each of them opening the locks on the surface, then time them opening another slate with the same sort of locks at 60 feet -- a depth not normally associated with awareness of cognitive changes.

I usually have my students come up with a couple secret handshakes that we practice on the surface beforehand.

I like the combination lock too, but I've found that a lot of people struggle with the locks regardless of depth and it can throw some false positives.

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#136

Post by nwatson » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 2:31 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #64

garmaine wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryonics involves vitrification, not freezing. Ice crystals do no damage if they never form in the first place. Now the method of achieving vitrification involves pumping the body full of toxic antifreeze. But in principle it's easier to flush the antifreeze out when warming than to reverse ice crystal damage, though the techniques have not yet been worked out. Thankfully it's not necessary for the reversal procedure…

There is zero chance that a human pumped full of antifreeze today will ever be successfully revised. Cryonics is a total scam by hucksters preying on desperate idiots. And don't bother telling me that it's worth doing if there's even a tiny chance. The chance is exactly 0, and those resources are better spent on the living.

Also, frozen oblivion is better than being brought back by those who will not honor your motivations for being frozen. If it's possible to be brought back, organ-harvesting, post-cryo-slavery, medical-experiment-subject are the likely outcomes.

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#137

Post by nwatson » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #96

mehrdadn wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't understand about this logic is, how do you have any confidence that if by some miracle you were brought back to conscious life again, your life wouldn't be an absolute living hell (organ damage, paralysis, etc.)? Like even if you had infinite money and resources to spend on whatever you wanted, would that risk be sitll worth it to you?

You don't. You can only hope that a) future people won't revive you unless they're somewhat confident it'll leave you better off than you were when frozen, and b) worst comes to worst, they can still euthanize you. Cryonics is ultimately a bet on future technology and future humanity .

Future people will use the frozen as a resource. I would buy a 2139-October call option on 100-frozen-hopefuls ... that's when I estimate techniques for revival will be viable and when legal hurdles to mass exploitation will be overcome. In 120 years nobody will care about your intentions in being frozen.

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#138

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 2:45 PM UTC

Symmetry wrote: post #112

brokenkebab wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't it sound similar to "Prove that I cannot win a billion!" from someone who spends money in casino?

There's a big difference between telling someone they aren't going to win in the casino and telling them they have "zero chance" of winning. The later is false and is probably an ineffective argument because it's obviously false.

Yes, they should have said "roughly zero chance", which is true. They were just rounding down.

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#139

Post by cheerlessbog » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 2:45 PM UTC

Swifty wrote: post #106

idlewords wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is correct; scuba divers are trained to do a controlled emergency ascent while continuously exhaling, because your lungful of air at depth will last the whole way up, and the real risk is not running out of air, but embolism from overexpansion. The limiting factor in ascent (and therefore the reason for the recreational dive limit of 60 feet) is the risk of decompression sickness. If it weren't for that, a diver…

This is not entirely true, not all agencies teach a Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent (CESA). From memory the only one that teaches this is PADI. Most don't as this is not a very effective or safe way of getting up once you get bellow a few M of water. Most agency's will teach you to do an Alternate Source assent where you come up breathing of your buddy's air source, as this allows you to come up at a safer and m…

As I remember the PADI training the CESA is the absolute last resort when your buddy is not available. I imagine all authorities would agree that it's less bad than remaining at depth without gas.

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#140

Post by PatrolX » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 2:58 PM UTC

"But his survival is not unheard of either. Tipton has examined 43 separate cases in the medical literature of people who have been submerged in water for long periods. Four of these recovered, including a two-and-a-half-year-old girl who survived being under water for at least 66 minutes."

Wow, 66 minutes! Amazing.