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IEEE Lifts Huawei Restrictions on Editorial and Peer Review Activities

ieee.org

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Re: IEEE Lifts Huawei Restrictions on Editorial and Peer Review Activities

#21

Post by oblio »

anfilt wrote: post #11
majia wrote: post #10

Even though the restrictions are lifted, the damage is already done. Now everyone knows that IEEE has to comply with US gov's demands, which can be made without any court ruling or due process.

err that applys to any company/organization in any country. You just can’t break a countries laws and hope to get away with it. If anything IEEE was too quick to move, but I am not their legal team.

> You just can’t break a countries laws and hope to get away with it.

As an outsider, have they? Have they actually been convicted of anything relevant in US courts?

Re: IEEE Lifts Huawei Restrictions on Editorial and Peer Review Activities

#22

Post by jkaplowitz »

gmueckl wrote: post #14
anfilt wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

err that applys to any company/organization in any country. You just can’t break a countries laws and hope to get away with it. If anything IEEE was too quick to move, but I am not their legal team.

I don't know the specofics.about the US, but other countries have legal means to take government dwxisions to court and - depending on the issue - a least force a delay on the order until the court decision has been reached. I would be surprised if the US had no such mechanism to defend against illegal or unjust executive orders.

The US does have such a mechanism. There are requirements to be eligible to start that court case and requirements a judge is supposed to examine before they delay the executive decision. I'm guessing some of those requirements weren't satisfied here.

This is with reference to illegal orders. As for unjust orders that happen to be allowed by the applicable laws, that's not a situation the courts can remedy.

Re: IEEE Lifts Huawei Restrictions on Editorial and Peer Review Activities

#23

Post by intsunny »

Barrin92 wrote: post #3

Good. That this at all happened should make them think about relocating to a country like Switzerland. They're supposed to be an international organisation.

Switzerland is neutral in arms only: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_neutrality

Switzerland has numerous policy/economic/security/etc agreements with the EU.

Re: IEEE Lifts Huawei Restrictions on Editorial and Peer Review Activities

#24

Post by microcolonel »

majia wrote: post #19
anfilt wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

err that applys to any company/organization in any country. You just can’t break a countries laws and hope to get away with it. If anything IEEE was too quick to move, but I am not their legal team.

US law says that an Ericsson 5G researcher from Sweden cannot have his paper reviewed by a Huawei employee, who could be the most knowledgeable expert in the sub-domain. Justifying this kind of unjust law is like saying Google should comply with Chinese censorship request to suppress dissent opinions in Sweden.

> US law says that an Ericsson 5G researcher from Sweden cannot have his paper reviewed by a Huawei employee

I think the news is that it doesn't, but also that some lawyer thought it might.

Re: IEEE Lifts Huawei Restrictions on Editorial and Peer Review Activities

#25

Post by microcolonel »

inflatableDodo wrote: post #16
anfilt wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

err that applys to any company/organization in any country. You just can’t break a countries laws and hope to get away with it. If anything IEEE was too quick to move, but I am not their legal team.

>You just can’t break a countries laws and hope to get away with it. Firstly, which law would they have been breaking if they had not blocked Huawei, given the subsequent guidance they have been given? And secondly, which universe do you inhabit? Companies and organisations break the law and get away with it in this one with monotonous regularity.

> Firstly, which law would they have been breaking if they had not blocked Huawei, given the subsequent guidance they have been given?

Well, they seem to have reversed the restrictions; but it's not crazy for their lawyers to hold things up a bit while they figure out if what they're doing could land them in trouble. As an IEEE member, I kinda expect them to be a bit careful about breaking the law.

> And secondly, which universe do you inhabit? Companies and organisations break the law and get away with it in this one with monotonous regularity.

So you're saying that... corporations, including non-profits, should knowingly risk violating the law because... sometimes corporations get away with small fines for doing similar? I don't get it. I also don't get why you're being so hostile.

Re: IEEE Lifts Huawei Restrictions on Editorial and Peer Review Activities

#26

Post by matthewdgreen »

anfilt wrote: post #11
majia wrote: post #10

Even though the restrictions are lifted, the damage is already done. Now everyone knows that IEEE has to comply with US gov's demands, which can be made without any court ruling or due process.

err that applys to any company/organization in any country. You just can’t break a countries laws and hope to get away with it. If anything IEEE was too quick to move, but I am not their legal team.

The IEEE is (in this role, at least) a scientific press. They should have, and assume, a strong 1st amendment protection in pursuing that goal. The fact that they didn't assume this -- and then had to subsequently reverse their policy once the lawyers weighed in -- is pretty damning to the leadership of the organization.

Re: IEEE Lifts Huawei Restrictions on Editorial and Peer Review Activities

#27

Post by derefr »

anfilt wrote: post #11
majia wrote: post #10

Even though the restrictions are lifted, the damage is already done. Now everyone knows that IEEE has to comply with US gov's demands, which can be made without any court ruling or due process.

err that applys to any company/organization in any country. You just can’t break a countries laws and hope to get away with it. If anything IEEE was too quick to move, but I am not their legal team.

Should it apply to nominally international bodies, which happen to be headquartered in a specific country, but which do not derive any specific benefits from being so headquartered, it being just an accident of history that the international membership first came together there?

It’d be like saying that the Swiss government has sway over the International Criminal Court. Seems strange.

Re: IEEE Lifts Huawei Restrictions on Editorial and Peer Review Activities

#28

Post by kevin_b_er »

majia wrote: post #10

Even though the restrictions are lifted, the damage is already done. Now everyone knows that IEEE has to comply with US gov's demands, which can be made without any court ruling or due process.

The fallout from this will be, I suspect, that standards bodies will no longer be centered in the US. The historical leadership the US has in setting the trend for technology will suffer great damage. All for political ego.

Re: IEEE Lifts Huawei Restrictions on Editorial and Peer Review Activities

#29

Post by smiths1999 »

oblio wrote: post #21
anfilt wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

err that applys to any company/organization in any country. You just can’t break a countries laws and hope to get away with it. If anything IEEE was too quick to move, but I am not their legal team.

> You just can’t break a countries laws and hope to get away with it. As an outsider, have they? Have they actually been convicted of anything relevant in US courts?

I think it's reasonable for a company to react as if they are currently breaking a law even if they are unsure. I'm not saying this is what IEEE did, but in general if leadership thinks a certain activity _may_ possibly be breaking a law but they are not certain, suspending that activity is probably the right move.

Re: IEEE Lifts Huawei Restrictions on Editorial and Peer Review Activities

#30

Post by wbl »

kevin_b_er wrote: post #28
majia wrote: post #10

Even though the restrictions are lifted, the damage is already done. Now everyone knows that IEEE has to comply with US gov's demands, which can be made without any court ruling or due process.

The fallout from this will be, I suspect, that standards bodies will no longer be centered in the US. The historical leadership the US has in setting the trend for technology will suffer great damage. All for political ego.

Did you read article? The government said "no, we didn't mean that when we said this". IEEE overreacted.
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