On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens • Hacker News Board

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#41

Post by scotty79 » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 12:57 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #33

scotty79 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't feel sorry for people for being worse. Not everybody is the same, noone is perfect. But I feel sorry to see them suffer while they might have not if they were able to use smartphone for entertainment.

> But I feel sorry to see them suffer while they might have not if they were able to use smartphone for entertainment. Well, they also might have not if they have gotten a hobby, learned to read books, and so on. Why feel sorry that they're not accustomed with one of the worse options? And one that everybody and their dog seems to want to cut down these days?

Smartphone is not one of the worse options. It's one of the best options. Thanks to it I'm just discusing ideas with you while lying in a garden. Which is at the moment my preferred way of wasting my time.

No other tool would allow me to waste my time this way. If I couldn't do it I'd read fantasy book I got for my recent birthday but it wouldn't be nearly as intelectually stimulating.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#42

Post by ryanmercer » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 12:57 PM UTC

folkrav wrote: post #38

ryanmercer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the waiting line in the supermarket used to be full of aggression, it has become much calmer with phones, What? Grocery lines used to be people reading magazines/tabloids/tv guides or sending their kid to go get something they forgot, now it's people yacking loudly on their phone or playing candy crush waiting for the person in front of them to finish self checkout.

I can't remember the last time I heard someone "yacking loudly" at their phone in line at the supermarket. The Candy Crush part is accurate, but not very different from reading magazines. Not sure what was the point both you and OP were trying to make.

I can't go to the grocery or my second gym without people shouting into their phones or their bluetooth, or worse, sometimes having a conversation with the other person on speaker (for that matter we have a few people that do that here in my office in the break room).

Perhaps it is a midwest thing.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#43

Post by scotty79 » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 1:09 PM UTC

Veen wrote: post #13

scotty79 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except when they are in the spot where they can accomplish nothing. Then boredom is an itch you can't scratch. Becomes torture.

You always have your mind. Are you incapable of just sitting and thinking about things? Do you need constant external stimulation? There's a famous quote from Blaise Pascal that goes "All human evil comes from a single cause, man's inability to sit still in a room." I wonder if someone like Richard Feynman would have accomplished anything at all if he had a phone to distract him and he was incapable of simply sitting…

> You always have your mind.

Yeah. Human mind is very limited tool without external support. That's why writing was such a boon for humans and notation was such a boon for math.

> Are you incapable of just sitting and thinking about things?

Yeah. I can but that rarely acomplishes anything. If you think you can solve a problem just with your mind think again. Most problems are problems because you lack some information. And you won't get any missing information just by thinking. And if you have all the information, you just need to process it then you are still out of luck. Even moderately complex processing let's say roughly as hard as derivating moderately simple calculus requires at least a pen and piece of paper to support you wonderful mind with crappy operational memory that can hold at most seven things at once.

I would much rather do the thinking with my phone than without it.

I'm not Feynman and Einstein had plenty of paper.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#44

Post by mirimir » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 1:13 PM UTC

ryanmercer wrote: post #35

wortelefant wrote: post #22

The article is quite optimistic about peoples' abilities to transform their newfound boredom into something creative, but as in the example with books, this digital minimalist "healthy" boredom also has its prerequisites to make it work. By likening social media use to addiction, only the negative effects are highlighted. For example, the waiting line in the supermarket used to be full of aggression, it has become mu…

>the waiting line in the supermarket used to be full of aggression, it has become much calmer with phones, What? Grocery lines used to be people reading magazines/tabloids/tv guides or sending their kid to go get something they forgot, now it's people yacking loudly on their phone or playing candy crush waiting for the person in front of them to finish self checkout.

In some places, people tend to get angry when forced to wait. Maybe they don't express it, but it's there. Other places, most everyone chills.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#45

Post by dan00 » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 1:14 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #37

dan00 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you got it completely the wrong way. You can get a lot more bored if you're used to be entertained the whole time. I can only tell from my own personal experience, that reducing entertainment also influences my consciousness, that I'm feeling less easily bored and I'm better able to just enjoy and see the beauty of my surroundings.

You are right that you can build up resistance to boredom by reducing entertainment. I gained a ton after sitting through family dinners at my SO parents and grand parents. Initially I was bored out of my mind. Gradually I adapted and suffered less and less. But I don't see it as something positive. I feel like it broke my mind in some way. It replaced frantically struggling against boredom with nearly catathonic apa…

> But I don't see it as something positive. I feel like it broke my mind in some way. It replaced frantically struggling against boredom with nearly catathonic apathy.

For me the opposite of boredom isn't apathy, but more a kind of freeing your mind from any entertainment needs. If the need vanishes then there's also no pain.

> It feels more like a learned helplessness than improvement.

Needing entertainment is IMHO a lot more a learned helplessness.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#46

Post by mark_l_watson » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 1:15 PM UTC

kashyapc wrote: post #30

mark_l_watson wrote: post #28

Digital Minimalism was probably my least favorite Cal Newport book, not for the subject matter but because of the reliance on third party stories. I like to hear peoples’ stories first hand. Even though I ended up being a partially failed case for using this book, I still got value from it. I mostly did the thirty day digital detox but ended up going back almost to my old routine. The difference is that I have perhap…

As I've noted here before[1], Newport is on a 3-book contract on more or less the same topic with minor tweaks. And is likely to subtly market them to the hilt at every opportunity. Besides unsound fundamentals (relying too much "third party stories", and other issues noted elsewhere), he focuses too much on "quantity" and "productivity" than on quality and effectiveness . Sure, he has something of value to say, but…

You make good points. I used major publishers like McGraw-Hill, J. Wiley, Springer Verlag, etc. for the first ten books I wrote. You really give up a lot of control over subject matter. I now use Leanpub, write whatever I enjoy writing about. I pitch the advantages [1] of writing to people I know, and usually suggest writing one or two books with a publisher and after that self publish.

[1] largest advantage is getting to meet and get to know really interesting people. I enjoy writing but being an author also opens up a lot of opportunities.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#47

Post by scotty79 » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 1:18 PM UTC

seedie wrote: post #39

scotty79 wrote: post #2

Funny how younger people don't even know how the true boredom looks like. They think they get bored on their phones. Only after they go on screen detox they realise how much more fucking boring the life is. Especially if you don't have an obsessive hobby and do not want to bother other people just because you personally are bored. I feel bad for people older than me that never got adjusted to the smartphones when the…

True boredom seems to be something that we learn over the years. Watching my 3y old daughter she never seems to get bored. If shes not entertained and realizes she won't get entertained anytime soon she starts singing (improving songs with her own text ;), telling herself stories that evolve while shes talking, exploring things that are around her. She grabs everyday things and looks what she is able to do with them…

> exploring things that are around her.

That works for first few years of life.

> She does that to not be bored.

Exactly. But at age 7 or 9 she'll have most of the things figured out and when you place hear in novelty lacking, restricted environment like at or near the table adults are eating and talking about same things seemingly forever you'll see her suffer. I hope you'll notice and help her find entertainment.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#48

Post by wortelefant » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 1:19 PM UTC

ryanmercer wrote: post #35

wortelefant wrote: post #22

The article is quite optimistic about peoples' abilities to transform their newfound boredom into something creative, but as in the example with books, this digital minimalist "healthy" boredom also has its prerequisites to make it work. By likening social media use to addiction, only the negative effects are highlighted. For example, the waiting line in the supermarket used to be full of aggression, it has become mu…

>the waiting line in the supermarket used to be full of aggression, it has become much calmer with phones, What? Grocery lines used to be people reading magazines/tabloids/tv guides or sending their kid to go get something they forgot, now it's people yacking loudly on their phone or playing candy crush waiting for the person in front of them to finish self checkout.

I was only referring to the waiting line in my nearest supermarkets, people even used to push their cards into the feet of those in front of them, but now they are busy on candy crush or something else on their phomes. This is not to say it is a better use of their time now, just as an example that not everyone is ready to transform a time without phones into something productive

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#49

Post by douglaswlance » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 1:23 PM UTC

JosephJoestar wrote: post #11

Interesting topic but is this not just an advert for this guys book?

It isn't just an advert because it has other value for the reader than just promoting the book.

It is promoting the author and his book, because that's how he makes a living and feeds his family.

You get a bit of value from the post, you are exposed to the author, and perhaps in exchange you will buy his other work and give him and his publisher some money.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#50

Post by mrhappyunhappy » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 1:30 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #47

seedie wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True boredom seems to be something that we learn over the years. Watching my 3y old daughter she never seems to get bored. If shes not entertained and realizes she won't get entertained anytime soon she starts singing (improving songs with her own text ;), telling herself stories that evolve while shes talking, exploring things that are around her. She grabs everyday things and looks what she is able to do with them…

> exploring things that are around her. That works for first few years of life. > She does that to not be bored. Exactly. But at age 7 or 9 she'll have most of the things figured out and when you place hear in novelty lacking, restricted environment like at or near the table adults are eating and talking about same things seemingly forever you'll see her suffer. I hope you'll notice and help her find entertainment.

I grew up without phones, and for the most part without computers (early years). There were many times I was bored as a kid but most of the time I found activities to fill that time. Being bored a is okay and should not be seen as time needed to be filled. Kids require boredom to enable creativity. It takes imagination to go from bored to doing something. It’s actually part of the developmental process and should not be disrupted by screen time.

My guess is you don’t have kids. This certainly feels like an opinion of a younger person and I can’t blame you for thinking that way. We were all once ignorant and if you ask a person yet older, we never stop.

Think about how long it took for humans to involve to get to where we were before instant entertainment. Now think about how long it’s been since we advanced from first mobile entertainment to now. Do you think hay sudden change is good for you as a natural evolving being?