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A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

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Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#101

Post by jfk13 »

garmaine wrote: post #76
ohazi wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a pretty big difference between the statements: "We are likely to have life extending and resuscitation technologies in 500 years that are better than what we have today." and "The dead rich people in these particular vats of antifreeze have any more than a snowball's chance in hell at being successfully resuscitated." I think the parent's analysis is correct. Your statements, while also correct, don't really…

It didn't point out any issues... it just made the unsubstantiated claim that a cryonics patient has no chance of ever being revived. It IS physically possible to revive cryonics patients--as in the laws of physics would permit it, even if we don't have anything near the technology required, yet. This isn't a bold claim but rather a statement of fact with respect to information preservation of the vitrification proce…

> a statement of fact with respect to information preservation of the vitrification process

That's not a statement of fact, it's a statement of belief. Personally, I think it's highly unlikely that any current vitrification process preserves sufficient information for the patient to be revived. We're nowhere near even understanding what "sufficient information" would be, let alone how to preserve it.

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#102

Post by dig1 »

jdietrich wrote: post #88
agumonkey wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pressurized oxygen has different effects on your breathing/vascular system ?

At sufficiently high partial pressure, it's toxic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_toxicity Nitrogen becomes narcotic at high pressure; breathing normal air at 30m is like being tipsy, but below 90m it can be fatal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_narcosis

Nitrogen narcosis is usually called "drunkenness of depth" (if I translate this correctly), because it produce effect like you are drunk.

I've seen and heard many stories of experienced divers that would do silly things due this effect; that is why you always have to have partner with you and the rest of the crew near by.

This effect is highly dependent of person and I've seen guys goes beyond 40m without getting this at all.

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#103

Post by tim333 »

nradov wrote: post #64
garmaine wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryonics involves vitrification, not freezing. Ice crystals do no damage if they never form in the first place. Now the method of achieving vitrification involves pumping the body full of toxic antifreeze. But in principle it's easier to flush the antifreeze out when warming than to reverse ice crystal damage, though the techniques have not yet been worked out. Thankfully it's not necessary for the reversal procedure…

There is zero chance that a human pumped full of antifreeze today will ever be successfully revised. Cryonics is a total scam by hucksters preying on desperate idiots. And don't bother telling me that it's worth doing if there's even a tiny chance. The chance is exactly 0, and those resources are better spent on the living.

A zero chance is your opinion. I'd estimate there is a high change some of them will come back in some form. I'm more a believer in extracting information to an AI simulation than reanimating the old bodies.

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#104

Post by chimprich »

mehrdadn wrote: post #90
daeken wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So if you're claiming that cryonics has "a snowball's chance in hell" of working, then I presume that either you are (1) ignorant of the science, or (2) making some sort of statement about long-term storage prospects or the credibility of the organizations involved. I'm signed up to be a cryonics patient when I die, but yeah, the chances are pretty much nil. Personally, I'll take a slightly diminished bank account…

What I don't understand about this logic is, how do you have any confidence that if by some miracle you were brought back to conscious life again, your life wouldn't be an absolute living hell (organ damage, paralysis, etc.)? Like even if you had infinite money and resources to spend on whatever you wanted, would that risk be sitll worth it to you?

It seems unlikely to me that we'd acquire the ability to revive a brain from death before the state of medical technology advances sufficiently to repair nerve damage or regenerate organs. You could put a kind of guarantee into this by only having your head or brain preserved, so the minimum viable tech level for resurrection would be regrowing a body.

I'd be more concerned with the emotional and mental challenges of being revived centuries hence, which would be considerable to say the least.

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#105

Post by ThePadawan »

omoikane wrote: post #18
petschge wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The polar station in Antartica is also quite inaccessible during winter. Winter-overs are proud of the fact that they are more remote than the ISS. There you can get in a Soyuz and be back in 90 minutes. In Antartica it might be a month before they can airdrop supplies, maybe four month until they can airlift you out.

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Place_Further_than_the_Unive... It's a great series about exploring Antartica, where the title came from the fact that it takes longer to reach Antartica than to reach space.

Oh my god, I just got that title. Thank you so much!

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#106

Post by Swifty »

idlewords wrote: post #33
ip26 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just idle observation, but when you ascend the air in your lungs expands and you are supposed to continuously exhale to prevent lung rupture. Supposedly if you start with a full pair of lungs, you can ascend pretty much from the bottom of the ocean on just one breath because of this. Also somewhat related, the deeper you go the less time your tank lasts. From what I remember, at 100m, a "5 minute tank" is pro…

This is correct; scuba divers are trained to do a controlled emergency ascent while continuously exhaling, because your lungful of air at depth will last the whole way up, and the real risk is not running out of air, but embolism from overexpansion. The limiting factor in ascent (and therefore the reason for the recreational dive limit of 60 feet) is the risk of decompression sickness. If it weren't for that, a diver…

This is not entirely true, not all agencies teach a Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent (CESA). From memory the only one that teaches this is PADI.

Most don't as this is not a very effective or safe way of getting up once you get bellow a few M of water.

Most agency's will teach you to do an Alternate Source assent where you come up breathing of your buddy's air source, as this allows you to come up at a safer and more controlled rate.

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#108

Post by pbhjpbhj »

bayareanative wrote: post #32
Joakal wrote: post #17

Question for the medical readers: a person dies when brain dies from lack of blood flow, right? So all those injuries, say a car crash where heart will stop soon. 1) Disconnect the head from body 2) plug it into a machine that supplies blood, etc 3) the body is repaired 4) reattach head to body. Overlooking the obvious trauma, is this possible? While extreme/traumatic, I think it could be more reliable as other facto…

That's what an ECMO is... a last-ditch effort to perfuse the brain and vital organs to see if the body can recover. It rarely does. Head transplantation is still too "out there."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extracorporeal_membrane_oxyg...

an extracorporeal technique of providing prolonged cardiac and respiratory support to persons whose heart and lungs are unable to provide an adequate amount of gas exchange or perfusion to sustain life. The technology for ECMO is largely derived from cardiopulmonary bypass, which provides shorter-term support with arrested native circulation.

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#109

Post by [deleted] »

justinclift wrote: post #78
Robotbeat wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for cryogenics, unfortunately, but yes for hibernation. NASA has funded the study of medically induced torpor for hibernating humans for deep space exploration: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/201800... If we ever do crewed interstellar travel, even if we can get the trip time down to 50 years or so, we’ll probably want something like this. But it’s useful even for Mars trips since you can f…

Interesting. That PDF doesn't seem to include increased radiation exposure while having a slowed ability to repair the damage. Wonder if that's just because it's not viewed as important?

[deleted]

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#110

Post by brokenkebab »

garmaine wrote: post #65
nradov wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is zero chance that a human pumped full of antifreeze today will ever be successfully revised. Cryonics is a total scam by hucksters preying on desperate idiots. And don't bother telling me that it's worth doing if there's even a tiny chance. The chance is exactly 0, and those resources are better spent on the living.

You have perfect knowledge of future technologies?

Doesn't it sound similar to "Prove that I cannot win a billion!" from someone who spends money in casino?
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