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A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

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Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#81
post #45
post #17

Question for the medical readers: a person dies when brain dies from lack of blood flow, right? So all those injuries, say a car crash where heart will stop soon. 1) Disconnect the head from body 2) plug it into a machine that supplies blood, etc 3) the body is repaired 4) reattach head to body. Overlooking the obvious trauma, is this possible? While extreme/traumatic, I think it could be more reliable as other facto…

We still cannot repair a spinal cord injury. A complete decapitation is a total spinal cord transection and more.

An Injury is not a clean cut. So when you use a scalpel to sever it its much easier

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#82
post #22

The documentary is on Netflix, it's worth a watch: https://www.netflix.com/watch/80215139

Thank you. Just watched it. Good one. The thing that bothered me that they resumed to do the same dive 3 weeks after the accident - it doesn't sound like enough time to setup protocols to prevent the same accident from occurring again. Also it was very weird to hear that they don't have checklist to follow when they ships's dynamic position system fails...They were essentially trying to control the ship by whatever t…

Not really suprising that there wasn't a checklist, a DP3(GPS, backup and failsafe)ship shouldn't ever suffer DP run off. Then it did. So now I suspect there are actually checklists.

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#83
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a pretty big difference between the statements: "We are likely to have life extending and resuscitation technologies in 500 years that are better than what we have today." and "The dead rich people in these particular vats of antifreeze have any more than a snowball's chance in hell at being successfully resuscitated." I think the parent's analysis is correct. Your statements, while also correct, don't really…

It didn't point out any issues... it just made the unsubstantiated claim that a cryonics patient has no chance of ever being revived. It IS physically possible to revive cryonics patients--as in the laws of physics would permit it, even if we don't have anything near the technology required, yet. This isn't a bold claim but rather a statement of fact with respect to information preservation of the vitrification proce…

> So if you're claiming that cryonics has "a snowball's chance in hell" of working, then I presume that either you are (1) ignorant of the science, or (2) making some sort of statement about long-term storage prospects or the credibility of the organizations involved.

I'm signed up to be a cryonics patient when I die, but yeah, the chances are pretty much nil. Personally, I'll take a slightly diminished bank account and a potentially non-zero percent chance of further life over a zero percent chance, but I won't delude myself into thinking that there's effectively any chance of success here.

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#84

What is really interesting is that at depths below 65m the real danger isn't running out of air, but that air itself becomes toxic due to the higher partial pressure of oxygen and it's effect on the nervous system. Tech and commercial divers breathe exotic air mixtures which are hypoxic and include helium to mitigate this. Dive science is pretty fascinating and is still a developing field.

pressurized oxygen has different effects on your breathing/vascular system ?

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#85
post #4

>If you lower the brain temperature down to 30C (86F), it can increase the survival time from 10 to 20 minutes. If you cool the brain to 20C (68F), you can get an hour. Wow, I actually didn't know this until now. Is this method used anywhere in medical procedures to resuscitate or prolong life?

About 10 years ago, finishing up High School, I had work practice at a company developing a product that would cool the brain without cooling the rest of the body.

I think they had mixed results, and I haven't seen them or their competitors launch their products.

It works though, but it seems very difficult to cool the brain without chilling the whole body.

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#86
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well not really. Cooling the patient down will give you a few hours at most under ideal conditions. Metabolism isn't turned off, just slowed down. If you freeze the patient the ice crystals damage the cells so much that revival becomes impossible.

Flash freezing (using liquid nitrogen to freeze something really quickly) is used successfully for smaller objects, such as frozen berries and frozen vegetables that you can buy at the grocery store. The Wikipedia page on flash freezing links to this [0] site with some more discussion. The Wiki page also says that flash freezing still can take a few hours, so there are still ice crystals created, but a lot less/small…

Even speaking as a brit, your mixture of metric and imperial and metric fascinates me.

I personally would've written 150lb, 6'6 tall, 1ft deep, 37 to 0 degrees

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#87
post #80

Main article aside, I have to take the article to task for the section where they talk about an airplane and the oxygen masks that deploy when the aircraft depressurises and the passengers find it "hard to breathe". Having gone through a depressurisation chamber as part of my flight training, at 35,000 feet (the normal cruising altitude for most passenger aircraft), it isn't actually hard to breathe. In fact, it feel…

> so that we can detect the symptoms of hypoxia particular to our own bodies Destin of SmarterEveryDay (with astronaut Don Pettit) recorded his experience with that training, which included a demonstration of the effects of hypoxia on his decision making ability. He doesn't notice the rapidly increasing symptoms: >> [Destin fails child's shape toy test, saying the cross was a square] "Alright you're starting to have…

Ah, that brings back memories. That was the exact stuff we did, except that my exercises was to count backwards from 1000 by 13's.

We were told that we could possibly make it 3 to 4 minutes at FL250 before having to go back onto oxygen. I managed to get to 5 minutes, but was was pretty much useless after the 3rd minute. I started to feel a real out of body experience, and it was like I was watching my own body do stuff but I couldn't really control it. I managed to get my own mask on and gangload the 3 switches, but I remember watching my colleagues in the chamber struggle and they had to be assisted by the RAAF team. The guys outside the chamber kept a hawk eye watch on all of us, and the guy in the chamber were quick to assist those of us who were in trouble.

What amazed me was as soon as we 'gangloaded' the switches to go back on full O2 with the masks on, recovery to full lucidity was super quick - within 1 or 2 seconds. It wasn't gradual, it was as if someone just whipped a heavy blanket off your brain!

Side story - before we went into the chamber, we had to be fitted for our helmets and masks, and I was seated in the 'fitting chair' in the crew room as 3 RAAF specialists slapped a bone dome and mask on me. Unbeknownst to them, that mask had just come back from a test facility, and thus it still had the wax seal on the end of the O2 hose to the mask.

Normally, there is no seal, so when the mask is clipped on during a test, you can still breathe normally as the valve at the open end just opens and shuts with your lung pressure. With the wax seal on it though, NO air gets through.

It was a few seconds of odd feeling when they snapped the mask on and I tried to breathe in but nothing happened. I remember feeling really freaked out at the sensation of wanting to breathe, but feeling and experiencing absolutely nothing. I started to grapple with the mask release, but they thought I was just uncomfortable with the fit and they kept slapping my hands away and adjusting the side straps.

I went into panic mode, and I am not sure what prompted me, but I started reeling in the trailing hose from my mask and lifted it up to see the seal on the end. One of the crew saw it and exclaimed before grabbing the hose and ripping the seal off. I gulped down lungfuls of air. Not the best start to my first chamber session!

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#88

What is really interesting is that at depths below 65m the real danger isn't running out of air, but that air itself becomes toxic due to the higher partial pressure of oxygen and it's effect on the nervous system. Tech and commercial divers breathe exotic air mixtures which are hypoxic and include helium to mitigate this. Dive science is pretty fascinating and is still a developing field.

pressurized oxygen has different effects on your breathing/vascular system ?

At sufficiently high partial pressure, it's toxic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_toxicity

Nitrogen becomes narcotic at high pressure; breathing normal air at 30m is like being tipsy, but below 90m it can be fatal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_narcosis

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#89
post #5

Reminds me of the fantastic movie The Abyss (1)...vaguely recall a similar scene where there's N tanks of oxygen for N+1 people, so they submerge 1 of the crew to lower her (i think) metabolic rate. Curious why they don't have emergency unmanned drones with the crew or why they don't have emergency tanks at their work site (which he was able to get back to) (1) - Not sure how well it has aged ( https://en.wikipedia.o…

>Curious why they don't have emergency unmanned drones with the crew or why they don't have emergency tanks at their work site (which he was able to get back to)

There was a UUV in the water, which helped to locate the casualty but wasn't capable of performing a rescue.

Bailing out to open-circuit SCUBA doesn't help for very long, because of the immense pressures involved. As you go deeper, you need more pressure to inflate your lungs. A cylinder that lasts for an hour near the surface will only last for a couple of minutes at 100m. Tethered divers do carry bailout gas cylinders, but they're very much a temporary fix for brief losses of gas supply.

There are major logistical problems with portering dozens of gas cylinders to a job site that may actually increase the overall risk, because of the far greater time spent in the water. That pile of cylinders won't help you a jot if you lose the job site or you're incapacitated. Saturation divers are increasingly switching to closed-circuit rebreather bailout systems, which recirculate the breathing gas and so are far less affected by depth.

Even that is only a partial help because of the effects of hypothermia - if you lose your umbilical, you lose the warm water supply that stops you from freezing to death. You also lose your lighting and communications, which substantially impedes your ability to self-rescue.

https://www.jfdglobal.com/products/commercial-divers-equipme...

Re: A man who ran out of air at the bottom of the ocean

#90
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It didn't point out any issues... it just made the unsubstantiated claim that a cryonics patient has no chance of ever being revived. It IS physically possible to revive cryonics patients--as in the laws of physics would permit it, even if we don't have anything near the technology required, yet. This isn't a bold claim but rather a statement of fact with respect to information preservation of the vitrification proce…

> So if you're claiming that cryonics has "a snowball's chance in hell" of working, then I presume that either you are (1) ignorant of the science, or (2) making some sort of statement about long-term storage prospects or the credibility of the organizations involved. I'm signed up to be a cryonics patient when I die, but yeah, the chances are pretty much nil. Personally, I'll take a slightly diminished bank account…

What I don't understand about this logic is, how do you have any confidence that if by some miracle you were brought back to conscious life again, your life wouldn't be an absolute living hell (organ damage, paralysis, etc.)? Like even if you had infinite money and resources to spend on whatever you wanted, would that risk be sitll worth it to you?
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