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If people tried to pay for other services like they try to pay for programming

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Re: If people tried to pay for other services like they try to pay for programming

#81

Post by cgrand-net »

merijnv wrote: post #76
Timothee wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

White goods are washing machines, dish washers, fridges…, while brown goods are the audio/video stuff (TVs, stereo). Kind of old fashion but based on the typical color of these items (mostly from a couple of decades or more ago: washing machines and fridges are in many colors and A/V stuff is almost always black and/or silver) According to Wikipedia, it seems to be mostly a UK idiom.

This idiom appears exactly the same in Dutch (and thus possibly other languages too?)

In French too (produits blancs/bruns).

Re: If people tried to pay for other services like they try to pay for programming

#82

Post by moozeek »

merijnv wrote: post #76
Timothee wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

White goods are washing machines, dish washers, fridges…, while brown goods are the audio/video stuff (TVs, stereo). Kind of old fashion but based on the typical color of these items (mostly from a couple of decades or more ago: washing machines and fridges are in many colors and A/V stuff is almost always black and/or silver) According to Wikipedia, it seems to be mostly a UK idiom.

This idiom appears exactly the same in Dutch (and thus possibly other languages too?)

German as well :) (Weisse Ware / braune Ware)

Re: If people tried to pay for other services like they try to pay for programming

#83

Post by rmc »

patio11 wrote: post #28
axiom wrote: post #14

This is the difference between business-to-business versus buying consumer goods. You can't waste time negotiating with every client who buys a $50 pair of shoes from you - it's just not cost effective. So you have a fixed price for everyone. However you can (and should) negotiate with people buying $20k worth of services from you. Historically, the consumer experience is actually the exception, not b2b. Up until fai…

You can't waste time negotiating with every client who buys a $50 pair of shoes from you - it's just not cost effective. This is where price discrimination comes in, and it is staggeringly effective: coupons, sales, discounts, etc etc. The great thing about fixed prices is that there are so many to choose from!

Or "Over 65s get 10% discount on thursdays" type thing.

Re: If people tried to pay for other services like they try to pay for programming

#85

Post by skore »

ecuzzillo wrote: post #50

You can order a filet for a fairly predictable price, it will take a fairly predictable amount of time, and it will fairly predictably make you happy. Software, by and large, does not make people happy or do what they want nearly as reliably as steak does, and so if I were them I would be much more finicky about paying people to make it for me than I am about paying people to make me steak. And especially, software m…

I'm not really sure whether arguing the "the work you receive might suck" case is helpful for the discussion. (I'm also pretty sure that it won't get you much love here for that train of though ;-) )

If that's where you start, sure, you can arrive at a lot of conclusions and be none the wiser. I have been to restaurants where the steak was far less reliable than you suppose.

Actually, that's not true - I avoid restaurants like that by figuring out that the one I do go to respects me as a client as I do respect it as the place that makes my tummy full. And there we arrive at the point of the video: The vendors are the ones who bring respect and quality to the table, the problem is that the clients do in no way mirror that respect.

If a client is willing to "just get somebody to do something for as little cash as possible", that's what they will get. Fortunately, people who care about the things they want to have done check first, treat their business partners well and live in a happy place where real things are negotiated for real prices that are then paid like adults.

Re: If people tried to pay for other services like they try to pay for programming

#86

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

unwind wrote: post #72
cubicle67 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bargain for almost everything (much to my wife's embarrassment :). One thing I've found, is that if you can't get them to reduce the price, you can often get extras thrown in. I recently bought a fairly expensive coffee machine (a real one, not one of those electronic ones); supplier wouldn't budge on price, but I did manage to get $400 credited to my account, 2x barrista training vouchers worth $150 each, and a fe…

How is losing $450 a win for the seller? You mean it was a requirement to get your business, to throw in $450 of extras? I hope it was a very real coffee machine. Plumbed variety? :)

He didn't lose money, he sold something at a smaller profit (we assume he's intelligent enough that he didn't cut his margin down beyond cost). The reason it's a win for him is that it's a sale he wouldn't otherwise have made and therefore a profit he wouldn't otherwise have had.

There are potential downsides (if it was his last one he might have missed the chance to sell it for full price, it might be seen as setting a precedent) but generally salesmen understand these and figure them into their reasoning.

Re: If people tried to pay for other services like they try to pay for programming

#87

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

eli wrote: post #29
patio11 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't waste time negotiating with every client who buys a $50 pair of shoes from you - it's just not cost effective. This is where price discrimination comes in, and it is staggeringly effective: coupons, sales, discounts, etc etc. The great thing about fixed prices is that there are so many to choose from!

Or even easier: put the same shampoo in three different bottles and charge three different prices.

A friend worked on a documentary about a major UK supermarket a while back. Talking to them off camera they admitted that their budget range chickens and their regular chickens where identical save the packaging.

Re: If people tried to pay for other services like they try to pay for programming

#88

Post by bendotc »

jrockway wrote: post #53
sliverstorm wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fine with the former, you get what you pay for, the latter however, really makes me mad. Seriously. Even though I know it's all mocked up, every time the video cut to the restaurant my pulse started to rise.

It's pretty stupid to let someone eat your product before you even check to see if they brought their wallet, isn't it.

Are you saying people usually ask you to produce your wallet at the beginning of a meal when you eat at a restaurant?

By ordering off the menu, you agree to the price on it. Similarly, when you sign an agreement to pay someone for work done, one would hope you'll pay that person when the work is done. Sadly, reality teaches us that this is not always the case.

Re: If people tried to pay for other services like they try to pay for programming

#89

Post by jrockway »

bendotc wrote: post #88
jrockway wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty stupid to let someone eat your product before you even check to see if they brought their wallet, isn't it.

Are you saying people usually ask you to produce your wallet at the beginning of a meal when you eat at a restaurant? By ordering off the menu, you agree to the price on it. Similarly, when you sign an agreement to pay someone for work done, one would hope you'll pay that person when the work is done. Sadly, reality teaches us that this is not always the case.

No, I'm just saying it's weird. People tried this (+) with houses and it didn't work very well. Why meals?

(+) this == "You saw the price and consumed the product, now it's time to pay." "But I don't have any money." "Oh fuck. I'm fucked, not you, even though you're the asshole."

Re: If people tried to pay for other services like they try to pay for programming

#90

Post by yummyfajitas »

lionhearted wrote: post #71
cubicle67 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bargain for almost everything (much to my wife's embarrassment :). One thing I've found, is that if you can't get them to reduce the price, you can often get extras thrown in. I recently bought a fairly expensive coffee machine (a real one, not one of those electronic ones); supplier wouldn't budge on price, but I did manage to get $400 credited to my account, 2x barrista training vouchers worth $150 each, and a fe…

Great comment. > * Some stock is in constant demand, and you'll almost never get a discount. Black mens trousers, for example. The flipside is, if you're a guy and you're willing to wear light blue, pink, purple, and yellow, you can get some seriously great buys. You can get very high quality clothes in those colors for dirt cheap sometimes, which is why around half of my wardrobe is bright. It takes a little aesthet…

It takes a little aesthetic knowledge so you don't look ridiculous, but everyone should probably learn a little basic aesthetics anyways - it's one of those areas that a tiny bit of knowledge pays huge dividends.

Very true, but how does one go about gaining this knowledge?

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