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The guy who made a tool to track women in porn videos is sorry

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Re: The guy who made a tool to track women in porn videos is sorry

#11
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that engineers are not always the ones in charge of the entire end result. If you want to do something unethical you can just split it up into harmless individual tasks and give it to a dozen engineers and then put it all together. It’s obfuscation. Some of the greatest atrocities we will see in tech (and we will see them) in the coming century will be the result of combining things created with good i…

An engineer can quit if the project is unethical. Just 'enduring' is harmful to yourself, and others. Don't be a coward, at least stand up for your values.

I agree with that sentiment a lot, but that's also easier said than done when one has a family, a mortgage, etc. Standing up for principles might seem worth it when losing a home and potentially screwing up one's family might since, if one quits, there are hordes of young sociopathic engineers who will continue the "disrupting" without you.

That said, a lot of engineers actually are in the position to make demands. The chances of getting fired for saying "I'm not going to do that because it's wrong" are probably very low. Most managers would rather not feel bad, and hiring someone new is usually touted as being a pain in the ass.

Re: The guy who made a tool to track women in porn videos is sorry

#12
Not sure how this relates to GDPR - the arguments are nonsensical. People tend to bump everything under GDPR now like its some form of gods commandment. If I simply sit in the cafe watching someone continuously near me, I am collecting data, and nobody can do anything about it.

When you leave your home, your privacy is gone.

When you make anything public your privacy is gone. Not sure anything is ethically wrong with the software existence, the problem seems to be data usage, just as if somebody found out his neighbors wife is in porn and went to twitter and said it publicly with few pictures as a proof, and people do that.

It's naive to think that this thing can/will go away, if anything, because of this news alone who knows how many more random programmers are retrying this (or even make business plans) at this very moment.

Re: The guy who made a tool to track women in porn videos is sorry

#13
post #8

I'm not sure I understand the GDPR argument here. Is collecting the facial information from actors and actresses in porn movies illegal? Or was it the access of their social media accounts? Why is the tallying of what is publicly consumable a violation of GDPR?

GDPR deals with processing of personal data, not just collection or canonical records of it. If personal data passes through a system, it’s probably covered by GDPR.

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Re: The guy who made a tool to track women in porn videos is sorry

#14

I'm not sure I understand the GDPR argument here. Is collecting the facial information from actors and actresses in porn movies illegal? Or was it the access of their social media accounts? Why is the tallying of what is publicly consumable a violation of GDPR?

The doctrine of public view meaning there are no rights to be enforced is not internationally recognised. Google even gave up on Street View in Germany, despite public streets being public.

There are good logical and moral reasons, IMO, why the doctrine is unsound. For example: individual photos are qualitatively different to movies, even though movies are made up of individual photos; the fixed interval conveys speed, which individual photos are quite poor at. Similarly, pervasive photography is different to individual photography: instead of an incident at a single location, someone's whole day may be mapped out, and who they're talking to, etc.

In other words, reasoning about privacy is not transitive or scale invariant. You can't say that the end result is ok or moral based on its component parts. Composition changes the thing qualitatively.

Re: The guy who made a tool to track women in porn videos is sorry

#15
Russian imageboards found VK profiles of quite a few porn actresses and prostitutes using findface.ru. Of course, they immediately started harrassing them and sending messages to everyone in their friends list.

However, ethics aside, the cat is out of the bag. People can shame the guy into deleting the data, but computing power will only get cheaper and data matchers faster. Sooner or later some will do this again and launch a Tor site with an up-to-date database. We have to adjust to the idea that if you have a social media profile any public images of you will lead people to it sooner or later. And it will be sooner, not later, with every passing year.

Re: The guy who made a tool to track women in porn videos is sorry

#16
The same story about Findface project was big news in Russia several years ago. They scraped the whole vk.com (Russian Facebook copycat with almost entire Russian population in it) and applied some very fine ML to find a person by his/her face.

2ch (4chan ancestor) users identified girls from porn and harassed them, outing them to their families and friends using this service.

Later company discontinued this service and now sells technology to the Russian government to monitor CCTV footage from Moscow subway.

VK kind of fixed data scraping issue (not sure if they actually changed much).

Usually Russia copies everything from the west, interesting to see western news follow Russian lead after a few years. Not saying I am proud of mother Russia in this case, just an observation.

Re: The guy who made a tool to track women in porn videos is sorry

#17

I'm not sure I understand the GDPR argument here. Is collecting the facial information from actors and actresses in porn movies illegal? Or was it the access of their social media accounts? Why is the tallying of what is publicly consumable a violation of GDPR?

I think this is a good question, and I’d like to know too, in specifics, not just “well, there’s personal data involved.” I’ve seen a lot of misunderstanding about GDPR and I’ve read parts of the legal code myself, and while it is clear why this software was a bad idea and how awful it might be for the actors, it’s not immediately clear exactly how this violates that law.

One thought perhaps is that the porn movies, even if it’s public information with consent, often do not identify the actors. The problem may be in connecting “anonymous” public information from one source with personally identifying public information from another source. But, this seems doubly problematic since all the information may be public with consent and since someone’s face might reasonably be considered identifying information. Does GDPR make it illegal to connect any personal data even when from public sources that all have consent?

Re: The guy who made a tool to track women in porn videos is sorry

#18

Not sure how this relates to GDPR - the arguments are nonsensical. People tend to bump everything under GDPR now like its some form of gods commandment. If I simply sit in the cafe watching someone continuously near me, I am collecting data, and nobody can do anything about it. When you leave your home, your privacy is gone. When you make anything public your privacy is gone. Not sure anything is ethically wrong with…

> Not sure how this relates to GDPR

GDPR states that the lawful basis for processing of data depends, among other things, on:

* the individual's explicit consent to the processing of his or her personal data.

* protecting the vital interests of a data subject or another individual

This violates both criteria, thus is indirect violation of the GDPR.

Re: The guy who made a tool to track women in porn videos is sorry

#19

Russian imageboards found VK profiles of quite a few porn actresses and prostitutes using findface.ru. Of course, they immediately started harrassing them and sending messages to everyone in their friends list. However, ethics aside, the cat is out of the bag. People can shame the guy into deleting the data, but computing power will only get cheaper and data matchers faster. Sooner or later some will do this again an…

Yes, but that shoudln't prevent society to also make those particular use of tech very costly. It should be consider like holding a concealed weapon: you need a permit, or you get jail time.

Permit should not be hard to get, as long as you can justify professional or research need.

But letting this go is creating a society I don't want to live it. I already hate, living my anonymous life, when some stranger take my photo without asking. It happens more and more.

On the other end, people filming the police get in more and more trouble.

We got things reversed.

Re: The guy who made a tool to track women in porn videos is sorry

#20

Not sure how this relates to GDPR - the arguments are nonsensical. People tend to bump everything under GDPR now like its some form of gods commandment. If I simply sit in the cafe watching someone continuously near me, I am collecting data, and nobody can do anything about it. When you leave your home, your privacy is gone. When you make anything public your privacy is gone. Not sure anything is ethically wrong with…

This has everything to do with the GDPR because the GDPR outlines the conditions you need to meet to process data, simply put actually gathering the data and using this tool is not legal within the EU.

>If I simply sit in the cafe watching someone continuously near me, I am collecting data, and nobody can do anything about it.

But the tool is doing more than that as it's also using data gathered from crawling social media profiles and then matching people, you cannot do this without specific consent under the GDPR.

>When you leave your home, your privacy is gone.

>When you make anything public your privacy is gone.

GDPR provides controls on privacy, it does not say you are guaranteed privacy in every situation but that if somebody misuses your data in a way that violates your privacy you have rights to correct this misuse, e.g., the right to opt out and the right to erasure of data among others.

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