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Google Just Gave 2B Chrome Users a Reason to Switch to Firefox

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Re: Google Just Gave 2B Chrome Users a Reason to Switch to Firefox

#21
post #18
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think safari is more cross platform than IE, since you can run safari on macOS and Windows. But IE only runs on Windows. EDIT: I have been informed that it's not cross-platform since 2012. My bad.

Safari is a terrible, Apple-like version of WebKit. The last viable windows version of Safari was abandoned 8 years ago, so please nobody use this browser.

Safari is the fastest browser I've ever used on mobile. It also supports ad blocking. Calling it "terrible" simply does not resonate with me.

Chrome is slower and Firefox on mobile is a joke.

Re: Google Just Gave 2B Chrome Users a Reason to Switch to Firefox

#22
post #17

The state of the debate is unsatisfactory. Google employees such as Justin Schuh are aggressively defending the move on tech/security principles and denying commercial motivations, while uBlock Origin dev (Raymond Hill) says the change will cripple or kill uBO on Chrome and evil motives are its raison d'être . It's good that mainstream media articles raise the awareness of the issue, but a good technical discussion b…

> Is it possible to fix the security issues of the existing webRequest API without deprecating it?

The WebRequest API is not being deprecated though, only the ability to block through it is. And I don't think blocking a request has very negative security implications. It's hard to not attribute malice to this move when the status quo was absolutely fine, and google is raising a strawman to try and justify their changes.

Re: Google Just Gave 2B Chrome Users a Reason to Switch to Firefox

#24
post #3

Great to see mainstream media picking this up and giving Firefox some exposure. With Microsoft switching to Chromium, Firefox is now the only viable (cross platform) alternative. FF gaining back a solid amount of market share is critical for the browser ecosystem in the future. (Personally I switched back to FF after the first Quantum release, which brought performance back on par with Chrome. On mobile, the ad block…

Which site has the most reliable browser metrics?

Re: Google Just Gave 2B Chrome Users a Reason to Switch to Firefox

#25
post #17

The state of the debate is unsatisfactory. Google employees such as Justin Schuh are aggressively defending the move on tech/security principles and denying commercial motivations, while uBlock Origin dev (Raymond Hill) says the change will cripple or kill uBO on Chrome and evil motives are its raison d'être . It's good that mainstream media articles raise the awareness of the issue, but a good technical discussion b…

I'd say in practice it doesn't really matter. For the sake of the argument let's assume that gorhill is wrong and the Google engineers really think this is the right technical decision, that's good for them but we still end up with subpar ad-blockers.

Of course these types of compromises crop up all the time when you're designing software, but then the problem is: if in the near future one Google engineer has an idea to improve the ad-blocking interface by, say, redesigning a certain component, would they do it? Would management let them do it?

There's a clear conflict of interest here, I expect ad-blocking to suffer death by a thousand cuts on Google's platform. Not necessarily because there's an evil master plan to kill it, but merely because every time there'll be a technical argument in favor of gimping it they're very likely to go with it while every time there'll be a proposal to improve it I'm sure there won't be a lot of motivation to implement it.

So even if we give Google the benefit of the doubt here I still believe that it's a huge problem and we can't let them effectively control the web. Beyond that in this particular case I'm not even sure I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, the technical justification seems iffy to me (and the burden of proof is clearly in their camp) and there's been a clear pattern lately of Google moving to reduce the impact of ad-blocking (such as them bundling a minimal ad-blocking with chrome, most likely as an effort to dissuade people from looking for better third-party blockers).

Re: Google Just Gave 2B Chrome Users a Reason to Switch to Firefox

#27
Google is rapidly becoming persona non-grata in my view. There is something really, for the lack of a better word, scummy about it in the last year or two.

We partnered with them on their DialogueFlow platform (voice recognition) for Google Home integration and voice command intent handling and they totally screwed us over. I won't/can't go into the specifics but it was bizarre; we had no recourse except taking a near trillion dollar company to court. We decided it was not worth it and wrote off the cost and took a hit but never again.

Re: Google Just Gave 2B Chrome Users a Reason to Switch to Firefox

#28
post #21
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari is a terrible, Apple-like version of WebKit. The last viable windows version of Safari was abandoned 8 years ago, so please nobody use this browser.

Safari is the fastest browser I've ever used on mobile. It also supports ad blocking. Calling it "terrible" simply does not resonate with me. Chrome is slower and Firefox on mobile is a joke.

If you're on iOS it would make sense since Apple is only allowing it's own webkit as browser engine, forcing chromium and firefox to be disfigured versions of what they are on other systems.

When I was working more frontend (~1,5 years ago) no browser would cause more work and trouble for us than Safari on iOS (we didn't have to support IE9 and lower).

Re: Google Just Gave 2B Chrome Users a Reason to Switch to Firefox

#29
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think safari is more cross platform than IE, since you can run safari on macOS and Windows. But IE only runs on Windows. EDIT: I have been informed that it's not cross-platform since 2012. My bad.

Safari hasn't been supported for Windows since 2012.

Ah. I apologise. I don’t use Windows, and haven’t for years but have vivid memories of using safari on Windows.

Re: Google Just Gave 2B Chrome Users a Reason to Switch to Firefox

#30
post #28
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari is the fastest browser I've ever used on mobile. It also supports ad blocking. Calling it "terrible" simply does not resonate with me. Chrome is slower and Firefox on mobile is a joke.

If you're on iOS it would make sense since Apple is only allowing it's own webkit as browser engine, forcing chromium and firefox to be disfigured versions of what they are on other systems. When I was working more frontend (~1,5 years ago) no browser would cause more work and trouble for us than Safari on iOS (we didn't have to support IE9 and lower).

Nah I'm talking about Chrome and Firefox on Android. They are both worse than Safari on iOS.

Also I understand that Safari might've created some pain for you as a frontend developer, but frankly I don't care. I'm an end user and I only care about how fast and secure the browser is. And Safari wins there, it's not terrible by any measure for the end user.

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