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I'm so impressed I want to pay you less

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Re: I'm so impressed I want to pay you less

#21
post #9

I went from contractor to "real employee" at a big company and it was no problem keeping the same take-home pay, while also getting paid vacation, cheaper insurance, 401k matching, etc., etc. I feel a little burned for not asking for more money, but nobody would actually take less money, right?

It's interesting seeing differences between countries. Like the author said in the comments, 401k isn't an "issue" in Australia. I don't know how 401k works, but Superannuation in Aus is a compulsory 9%-10% of your salary that your employer sends to your super fund (that you can't access until you're 60). If you're a contractor you don't have to pay yourself super (so you could have more immediately available money), but you could also put away 9% just like your employer would. There's no insurance issues because we get government provided healthcare, and depending on the contract structure you go with there's actually a few decent protections an employer is required to provide you (if you structure it that you're a company contracting to another company then you're out of luck there).

So realistically the major difference is "security", which to be honest there isn't much of regardless you being an employee or contractor. So at least in Australia, unless you're getting an increase in your hourly rate, or a company says they'll only continue to send you work if you're an employee, there's no major advantage to switching to be an employee.

Re: I'm so impressed I want to pay you less

#22
post #16
post #9

I went from contractor to "real employee" at a big company and it was no problem keeping the same take-home pay, while also getting paid vacation, cheaper insurance, 401k matching, etc., etc. I feel a little burned for not asking for more money, but nobody would actually take less money, right?

nobody would actually take less money, right? Often it appears that you take a hit to your pay, but when you do the benefits math (paid holidays, vacation, health insurance, sick days) it's at least a wash.

Yup. Bonus, 5% matching 401k, etc.

Re: I'm so impressed I want to pay you less

#23
post #15
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Job security is a myth. You can get fired/laid off at any time, whether you're full time or not. In a few states they don't even need a reason to get rid of you (at-will employment). I have seen this happen at least twice in the last 5 years. Company runs out of money, a bunch of people get cut. I've seen pretty high level people cut for political reasons. Of course, officially they would never admit that, but they d…

Job security is a myth, sure. But that doesn't mean that contracting carries the same risk; the risk is greater. Meanwhile, as an FTE, you get vacation time, sick days, bonuses, and company purchasing perks. You get a much better insurance coverage than you can afford to get privately. * As a full time employee you might get a severance package, if the company doesn't feel like dealing with you, but it's completely o…

In my particular case I get paid around $90/hr ($135/hr for overtime, plus paid major holidays). Which comes to around $180K/yr. The full time position I was offered is $130K/yr. There's no way in the world vacation + health insurance is worth $50K.

So if I take a month off, I lose $14.4K ($90 * 160 hours). A decent insurance PPO plan is $1100/month for me any my wife. So that's another $13.2K. So the total is $27.6K. And I don't think that many FTEs have a month of paid vacation.

Re: I'm so impressed I want to pay you less

#24
post #12
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Job security is a myth. You can get fired/laid off at any time, whether you're full time or not. In a few states they don't even need a reason to get rid of you (at-will employment). I have seen this happen at least twice in the last 5 years. Company runs out of money, a bunch of people get cut. I've seen pretty high level people cut for political reasons. Of course, officially they would never admit that, but they d…

Yeah, but an employee might get 'laid off' (and have to look for a new job) at most, say once every 3 years. It's possible it could be more often, but over the course of your career the average probably doesn't exceed once every 3 years (unless you're particularly poor). A contractor, on the other hand, has to look for new work every few months, at least. If I hate looking for new work, then being an employee might m…

My last two contracts were 1 year and 1½ years. There are short term contracts out there, and they usually pay much more per hour, so I'd actually prefer them. Most companies want you for at least 6 months.

It takes getting used to, but at least I don't have that terrible feeling of being afraid to lose my job. Many people are scared into being "loyal", and it really costs them.

Consider how much your average raise as a full time employee is. I'd say most people get 5%/yr if they are lucky.

By going from contract to contract, my salary grows much faster than that. I'd say 30%/yr for the last few years (on average).

Re: I'm so impressed I want to pay you less

#25
post #10

I'm on the other side of the fence. Yes, I could be making more money as a contractor, but that 'job security' that he doesn't see is one of the main things I like. It's -possible- that I won't have a job tomorrow, but it's not really likely. On the other hand, if I were contracting, I'd be in the situation very, very often, and have to find new clients constantly. No thanks. Of course, it also helps that I like the…

Job security is a myth. You can get fired/laid off at any time, whether you're full time or not. In a few states they don't even need a reason to get rid of you (at-will employment). I have seen this happen at least twice in the last 5 years. Company runs out of money, a bunch of people get cut. I've seen pretty high level people cut for political reasons. Of course, officially they would never admit that, but they d…

COBRA's not the only advantage of employment. Unemployment, too.

Contractors generally aren't eligible. Laid off employees are.

Re: I'm so impressed I want to pay you less

#26
post #23
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Job security is a myth, sure. But that doesn't mean that contracting carries the same risk; the risk is greater. Meanwhile, as an FTE, you get vacation time, sick days, bonuses, and company purchasing perks. You get a much better insurance coverage than you can afford to get privately. * As a full time employee you might get a severance package, if the company doesn't feel like dealing with you, but it's completely o…

In my particular case I get paid around $90/hr ($135/hr for overtime, plus paid major holidays). Which comes to around $180K/yr. The full time position I was offered is $130K/yr. There's no way in the world vacation + health insurance is worth $50K. So if I take a month off, I lose $14.4K ($90 * 160 hours). A decent insurance PPO plan is $1100/month for me any my wife. So that's another $13.2K. So the total is $27.6K…

Plus another what, $13k, for self-employment taxes?

Re: I'm so impressed I want to pay you less

#28
post #13
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Job security is a myth. You can get fired/laid off at any time, whether you're full time or not. In a few states they don't even need a reason to get rid of you (at-will employment). I have seen this happen at least twice in the last 5 years. Company runs out of money, a bunch of people get cut. I've seen pretty high level people cut for political reasons. Of course, officially they would never admit that, but they d…

Assuming of course that you live in the US. In the UK it's relatively difficult to get rid of people - sacking is very difficult and likely to end up in court (you need a bulletproof reason for doing it) and the redundancy process is quite complex (with guaranteed payments if you've been there more than 2 years, etc). Looks like the blog article was written by an Australian - their level of job security falls somewhe…

Correct mate, I am an Australian. I would say that our job security level is closer to that of the USA than the UK, but I don't think it's exactly the same.

On the whole I've seen way too many good people let go from permy positions while other plebs are retained. In same cases there doesn't appear to be any rhyme or reason to who gets culled and when. To me that's a real sign that the "important" differences between permy and contractor are well in favour of the latter.

Cheers!

Re: I'm so impressed I want to pay you less

#29
post #13
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Job security is a myth. You can get fired/laid off at any time, whether you're full time or not. In a few states they don't even need a reason to get rid of you (at-will employment). I have seen this happen at least twice in the last 5 years. Company runs out of money, a bunch of people get cut. I've seen pretty high level people cut for political reasons. Of course, officially they would never admit that, but they d…

Assuming of course that you live in the US. In the UK it's relatively difficult to get rid of people - sacking is very difficult and likely to end up in court (you need a bulletproof reason for doing it) and the redundancy process is quite complex (with guaranteed payments if you've been there more than 2 years, etc). Looks like the blog article was written by an Australian - their level of job security falls somewhe…

Sounds like a recipe for failure and bankruptcy.

Re: I'm so impressed I want to pay you less

#30
post #16
post #9

I went from contractor to "real employee" at a big company and it was no problem keeping the same take-home pay, while also getting paid vacation, cheaper insurance, 401k matching, etc., etc. I feel a little burned for not asking for more money, but nobody would actually take less money, right?

nobody would actually take less money, right? Often it appears that you take a hit to your pay, but when you do the benefits math (paid holidays, vacation, health insurance, sick days) it's at least a wash.

Yes, for the right job, or for something they love, they would do it. I know because I have done it.

I went to the UK in 2004 to do some travelling and working for a couple of years. Initially I was contracting in London at pretty good rates (between GBP 400 and 600 per day -- as I said, in 2004). The first year of contracting I earned just over GBP 120K. That's approx. USD $190k on the current exchange rate.

Part of the reason I went there was because I wanted to take a stab at the games industry. It was something that I had always wanted to do, and the industry here in Australia was awful. So I took at job at one of EA's studios.

That year I earned GBP 27k, approx. GBP 90k less than the year before.

Do I regret it? Not at all. I had a blast. It was a great experience and I met some amazing people.

So no, it's not all about the money. For the right gig in the right place with the right level of passion, earning enough to survive is exactly that: enough.

OJ

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