"Do you want to live "according to nature"? O you noble Stoics, what a verbal swindle! Imagine a being like nature - extravagant without limit, indifferent without limit, without purposes and consideration, without pity and justice, simultaneously fruitful, desolate, and unknown - imagine this indifference itself as a power - how could you live in accordance with this indifference?8 Living - isn't that precisely a will to be something different from what this nature is? Isn't living appraising, preferring, being unjust, being limited, wanting to be different? And if your imperative "live according to nature" basically means what amounts to "live according to life"- why can you not just do that? Why make a principle out of what you yourselves are and must be? The truth of the matter is quite different: while you pretend to be in raptures as you read the canon of your law out of nature, you want something which is the reverse of this, you weird actors and self-deceivers! Your pride wants to prescribe to and incorporate into nature, this very nature, your morality, your ideal. You demand that nature be "in accordance with the stoa ," and you'd like to make all existence merely living in accordance with your own image of it - as a huge and eternal glorification and universalizing of stoicism! With all your love of truth, you have forced yourselves for such a long time and with such persistence and hypnotic rigidity to look at nature falsely, that is, stoically, until you're no long capable of seeing nature as anything else - and some abysmal arrogance finally inspires you with the lunatic hope that, because you know how to tyrannize over yourselves - Stoicism is self-tyranny - nature also allows herself to be tyrannized. Is the Stoic then not a part of nature?.... But this is an ancient eternal story: what happened then with the Stoics is still happening today, as soon as a philosophy begins to believe in itself. It always creates a world in its own image. It cannot do anything different. Philosophy is this tyrannical drive itself, the spiritual will to power, to a "creation of the world," to the causa prima [first cause]."
How Stoicism can help us
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Re: How Stoicism can help us
#42> In your book, you also write about the importance of following your own values — and that Stoicism is a personal choice. > therapists today are increasingly encouraging clients to identify their true inner values and do things that serve those more fully. The big problem here is that most people don’t know what those values are. It's important to remember that the Stoics did not encourage us to follow our own indiv…
Re: How Stoicism can help us
#43What is everyone’s favorite translation of Meditations? I bought a cheap copy and the translation is unsurprisingly hard to read and distracts from the text’s content.
Re: How Stoicism can help us
#44Aurelius is the most approachable, but I find Epictetus more rewarding. Check out A. A. Long on Epictetus to get more deeply into what Epictetus was all about. Stoicism is like a missing manual for how to live a fulfilled life regardless of your station.
I got nothing out of reading meditations after reading Aurelius' quotes. I feel like the whole back can be summarized "Focus on what you can control, don't stress over what you truly can't." Same with ALL of Buddhism.
Re: How Stoicism can help us
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is dubious, but definitely not ridiculous. Buddhism was certainly known in parts of the Greco-Roman world, but there are significant differences between Buddhism and Stoicism, and there's no evidence of any direct intellectual connection. (Edit: one difference between the two is the Buddhist doctrine of "nonself", which contrasts with the Stoic view of the self as a part of universal Reason and a member of the k…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism
Re: How Stoicism can help us
#46I enjoy studying and considering stoicism but I have to think statements like >one of the biggest groups of people interested in it seems to be millennials who work in the tech industry and considering a simplified description of stoicism >the endurance of pain or hardship without the display of feelings and without complaint. To be an indictment of our industry. We're not coal-miners. We're not picking out in the fi…
Also, human suffering and dismay are universal. Wealthy westerners may have escaped material want, but none of us can escape the human condition.
Re: How Stoicism can help us
#47What is everyone’s favorite translation of Meditations? I bought a cheap copy and the translation is unsurprisingly hard to read and distracts from the text’s content.
1) The translation by Gregory Hays is the most accessible. Get the "Modern Library" hardcover edition. Has a nice introduction and notes.
2) The translation by Martin Hammond in "Penguin Classics" is also very good. Has detailed introduction and notes.
3) The translation with detailed notes by A.S.L.Farquharson is considered one of the definitive ones. Get the hardcover published by "Everyman's Library".
4) Finally there is a good translation by Robin Hard in "Oxford World's Classics". Robin Hard has also translated Epictetus "Discourses" and hence you may find his work unifying.
Re: How Stoicism can help us
#48Re: How Stoicism can help us
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is dubious, but definitely not ridiculous. Buddhism was certainly known in parts of the Greco-Roman world, but there are significant differences between Buddhism and Stoicism, and there's no evidence of any direct intellectual connection. (Edit: one difference between the two is the Buddhist doctrine of "nonself", which contrasts with the Stoic view of the self as a part of universal Reason and a member of the k…
I am no expert; I only read a lot. But, my understanding is that early Christianity was a reaction away from Judaism. And, that the Old Testament was only added as part of the canon later. In contrast to Judaism, Christianity was must more similar to Buddhism with it’s hippy love message. But, yes, I’m sure that’s very controversial.
For Christians, The Old Testament and New Testament are very much coupled together. There's a lot of prophecies and typologies you can read about from the Old Testament that finds its fulfillment in Jesus and the New Testament (such as the suffering Messiah).
I'd suggest C.S. Lewis' book "Mere Christianity" (who was good friends and influenced to convert by J.R.R. Tolkien and G.K. Chesterton) to get a clearer picture of Christianity without the sugar coating we commonly get from the media today. Lewis brings up the Trilemma, which is unique only to the founder of Christianity.
Re: How Stoicism can help us
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Christianity, especially in the first two centuries AD, was very heavily influenced by Stoic philosophy. (The Stoic influence declined somewhat after Augustine defeated the Pelagian heresy.) (For reference: Stoicism predated Christianity by around 300 years, and was quite entrenched by the time the Gospels were written.)
And, both Christianity and Stoicism were influenced by Buddhism. (Buddhism was practiced in both the Greek and Roman worlds, and scholars note many similarities between the two.)