Live data from Hacker News

How Qualcomm shook down the cell phone industry for almost 20 years

arstechnica.com

291–300 of 314 posts

Re: How Qualcomm shook down the cell phone industry for almost 20 years

#291
post #133
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple bought SiByte who were a lot of ex-DEC VLSI design engineers. So, "Apple" designing a CPU is technically correct, but its a design team from elsewhere.

I think you mean P.A. Semi.

Uh, yeah. You are correct.

Sorry. I forgot which of the ex-DEC design groups got bought when. It's been a while.

Re: How Qualcomm shook down the cell phone industry for almost 20 years

#292
post #274
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offenses against us are entirely ignored... Meanwhile everybody else is saying that US antitrust law is concerned entirely with consumer harm and not with competition. Although in this case the consumer harm seems to be that a >$750 phone costs ~$20 more than it might otherwise.

No, nobody thinks the enforcement is about consumers. Obviously it is on behalf of Apple and, maybe, Intel. But case law says they have to cite costs to consumers, so that is how the complaint reads. A zillion other companies do the same things, and much worse for "consumers", but are less openly greedy toward other big companies, so are ignored.

That said, Qualcomm's bad behavior has harmed the rest of us far, far more than just costing us a little extra for each phone. That Intel and Samsung have not been able to enter the market means that Qualcomm gets to dictate not just prices, but what you can buy. As the only implementer of many standards, they get to say what will be in standards, so the standards are ruinously complex to keep anybody smaller from being able to implement them. They get to dictate what RF engineers are paid. And so on. Monopoly power is poison wherever it operates.

Re: How Qualcomm shook down the cell phone industry for almost 20 years

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think things are as clear cut as you make them out to be. Apple says nobody can run apps on their phone without handing them a 30% cut. No side-loading, no other stores, nothing. There is very obviously a market for apps that Apple controls completely. Just because there are other app stores for other phones does not mean Apple doesn't have control over the entire market for iPhone apps. Markets can be narrow…

Except that isn't what is happening. Side loading is allowed on iOS and is how Netflix is currently monetizing their iOS users.

Sorry I misspoke. I should have said only that iOS allows side loading. I thought Netflix was utilizing this.

Re: How Qualcomm shook down the cell phone industry for almost 20 years

#294
It seems it is pretty much a one sided opinion against Qualcomm, without taking a look into actual details. I read the 233 page report, and I have to admit I am surprised at how some of the wordings and conclusion the judge came to be. ( And I was very surprised how Ars's Author read the report and did not question anything about it )

And in defence of Qualcomm, I would post a few links from people that had the same thought as I did. [1] Is the Qualcomm information, I think it provides a angle just how much Qualcomm has spent on R&D. While I don't normally consider Cnet as Quality source of news, Shara Tibken [2] has been following the Apple and Qualcomm Trial and has been in the court for every trial between the two, reporting on the "exact" wordings some of these people gave in court. There were lots of details, and Qualcomm clearly has some very decent explanation in every accusation against them. And somehow none of these made it into many other mainstream media.

Patrick Moorhead wrote about this [4][5] and I agree with him on every thing ( Apart from the US politics which I am not well versed in ). Things Such as the "common interest agreement” Apple has with the FTC, and Huawei's involvement. Along with completely ignoring the defendant's testimony. It really opens my eyes as to how US law system works compared to UK or Germany.

And I would just like to remind everyone, Hating Qualcomm, Qualcomm doing wrong, and Qualcomm is a monopoly are 3 different things.

[1] https://www.qualcomm.com/ftc

[2] https://twitter.com/sharatibken

[3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickmoorhead/2019/05/28/ftc-...

[4]https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickmoorhead/2019/03/31/the-...

Re: How Qualcomm shook down the cell phone industry for almost 20 years

#295
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it cost apple less to build improvement into 5G that would have been licensed to everyone they would have done so. Standards require all participants to license at a FRAND rate. If apple developed 5G IP they would have effectively received a rebate based on the relative impact of their contribution. Qualcomm actually has great execution. You realize 5G is going to put a 1 gigabit network in the palm of your hand?…

Meh, 1Gbps over cable is nothing, really. Switches with 10g uplink ports cost almost nothing now. Problem is that most software and hardware on user’s side can’t deal with that speed :) 5G smartphones probably won’t be able to give you 1Ggps either.

I just moved, and I have access to 1gbps fiber at my home for $50 a month vs a severely crippled 100mbps from comcast for $120 a month two blocks away. So land internet is not free, and 1gbps is rare.

Qcom charges Apple $14 bucks for the modem. That doesn't sound crippling or unfair or unreasonable. I think if consumers had the option to buy an ipod touch for 500, then add the modem like you do with a PC no one would be buying a fully integrated device from Apple for 1000.

I worked at Qualcomm, so take this with a grain of salt. But I find it laughable that Apple is complaining when they can sell the exact same thing at 2x the price by just adding a $14 dollar qualcomm modem.

Re: How Qualcomm shook down the cell phone industry for almost 20 years

#296
post #59
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App Store, in their ios ecosystem.

Jeep doesn’t allow me to install my own apps on Uconnect. I guess they are a monopoly. Sirius, Apple, and Android are 3rd party products that are allowed on Uconnect but not my own.

Apple has the majority of the US market and elite market around the world.

Re: How Qualcomm shook down the cell phone industry for almost 20 years

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple phones do not use ARM-designed processors. They just implement the same instruction set. If it’s possible for Apple to develop a mobile processor independently of ARM, why shouldn’t it be possible for Intel?

> If it’s possible for Apple to develop a mobile processor independently of ARM, why shouldn’t it be possible for Intel? Apple holds an ARM architecture license ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#Architectural... ) and to this day the Apple CPUs are ARM ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A12X ).

Apple’s CPU execute the ARM ISA. But they are not ARM IP designs. They are instead custom built in-house.

Re: How Qualcomm shook down the cell phone industry for almost 20 years

#298
post #241
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CPU design and RF stuff are both very difficult; I wouldn't assume one way or the other. I wonder if knowledge of CPU design is more widely dispersed (e.g. you can hire ex-Intel, ex-AMD, ex-IBM people) than cellular radios where the only (working) ones seem to be made by Qualcomm.

Samsung, Huawei and Intel all make working 4G modems. They work fine outside the US, which suggests that there is some US-specific problem at work.

CDMA.

Re: How Qualcomm shook down the cell phone industry for almost 20 years

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is the gangster in the hood.

What Apple did to/with that glass foundry that went under was straight-up gangster.

And because of that the little glass (actually sapphire) company´s execs are in court for fraud and the little glass company Apple raised from obscurity (Gorilla) is doing pretty well - Right. Gangster
Post reply on HN