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Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

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Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#121

Post by tantalor »

SomeOldThrow wrote: post #116
fyoving wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't seem to understand how this stuff works in the US, Google has full editorial control over their search results protected by the first amendment and that right was affirmed in court time and time again: https://searchengineland.com/another-court-affirms-googles-f... If you don't like their free no lock in service go elsewhere, and that's why there is no sherman act case here, which is why if the DOJ actua…

I’m fairly sure strong arming your clients does fall under anti trust, regardless of how hostile google is to its ad targets.

> strong arming your clients

You're describing any business, that's how business works.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#122

Post by simplecomplex »

Google isn’t a monopoly and using a competing search engine is quite easy.

Pretty sad that providing an excellent service that customers love is seen as a bad thing, especially on HN. Sad bitter people celebrating the thought of Google being punished for being at the top of their game... get a life.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#123

Post by tantalor »

glbrew wrote: post #91
fyoving wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't seem to understand how this stuff works in the US, Google has full editorial control over their search results protected by the first amendment and that right was affirmed in court time and time again: https://searchengineland.com/another-court-affirms-googles-f... If you don't like their free no lock in service go elsewhere, and that's why there is no sherman act case here, which is why if the DOJ actua…

I'm not a lawyer but the first amendment argument is a separate concern than antitrust violations. You can exercise your first amendment rights while still breaching antitrust law.

> You can exercise your first amendment rights while still breaching antitrust law.

Go on... example?

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#124

Post by joshuamorton »

dvtrn wrote: post #78
mav3rick wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many many googlers constantly advocate their resentment to the company. The company gives more avenues for this than any other company in the world.

That's fantastic-that employees feel they can express resentment without reprisal, however I'm left feeling that my question wasn't really answered-regarding the sentiment quoted and the context being discussed via the article linked. "I'm worried that if the rest of America knew what we were actually doing here they would literally come here and kill us..." This is a VERY specific and very interesting response to th…

I think you're still assuming it's less open than it is. There's a (well documented now) culture of what might be be described as direct and open insubordination when management does things that are not well liked.

I think your question was answered, but you don't really believe it, because it's difficult to believe.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#125

Post by DannyBee »

GeekyBear wrote: post #59

The career officials at the FTC recommended antitrust action against Google back in 2012, but the political appointees shut them down. >When the Federal Trade Commission neared a momentous decision on whether to charge Google with violating antitrust laws in January 2013, the White House was watching closely. New emails uncovered by the Campaign for Accountability, a public interest watchdog organization, show that a…

FWIW: It sounds nefarious, but the DOJ/FTC/etc quite often meet with all parties prior to taking antitrust action.

That's because (at least in the number of times i've been invited to meetings with these sorts of regulators) the relevant folks are not idiots, and in fact are trying to understand all sides of the issue before deciding what they should do.

This is actually what you want them to do, as there are rarely, if ever, truly disinterested parties in these sorts of things.

As an aside, i'm pretty sure Matthew was not the top antitrust counsel at Google at the time. I believe it was Nikhil Shanbhag. Job titles on linkedin seem to confirm my recollection.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#126

Post by KirinDave »

darkpuma wrote: post #114
KirinDave wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is not a "trust" in the strictest historical definition, but it's a amoral and terrifying company with incredible reach that frequently can and does snuff any chance any competitor has of using anything else. If Google is bad for using AMP to try and drive publishers to AMP hosting, then how is Amazon not even worse for ramming crazy terms down publisher's throats while buying or undercutting every other shipp…

Why would Google sell Youtube to Facebook?

I don't think either sale is possible, I'm merely using it as an example of what wouldn't be permissible.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#127

Post by magicalist »

I feel like about 2/3rds of hn commentators are going to be very disappointed when we learn this investigation is whether it's an antitrust violation to regularly list new york times and cnn news results above breitbart's.

The Trump administration has threatened this a couple of times now...

edit: I'm not sure why this is less plausible than the Obama white house personally interceding on the earlier case because they sought Google's "talking points"

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#128

Post by glbrew »

tantalor wrote: post #123
glbrew wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a lawyer but the first amendment argument is a separate concern than antitrust violations. You can exercise your first amendment rights while still breaching antitrust law.

> You can exercise your first amendment rights while still breaching antitrust law. Go on... example?

Here is the first example I came across:

https://www.rbr.com/six-broadcast-tv-groups-settle-doj-antit...

No one is saying these broadcast groups don't have 1st amendment rights, just that they were going about it in an anti-competitive way.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#129

Post by summerlight »

dvtrn wrote: post #78
mav3rick wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many many googlers constantly advocate their resentment to the company. The company gives more avenues for this than any other company in the world.

That's fantastic-that employees feel they can express resentment without reprisal, however I'm left feeling that my question wasn't really answered-regarding the sentiment quoted and the context being discussed via the article linked. "I'm worried that if the rest of America knew what we were actually doing here they would literally come here and kill us..." This is a VERY specific and very interesting response to th…

Well, I'd say there's literally no barrier between employees that prevents 'resentment' born dialogue. In fact, there's an internal site which is specialized to accelerating that 'resentment'. (joke, but it's true)

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#130

Post by GeekyBear »

fyoving wrote: post #89
GeekyBear wrote: post #59

The career officials at the FTC recommended antitrust action against Google back in 2012, but the political appointees shut them down. >When the Federal Trade Commission neared a momentous decision on whether to charge Google with violating antitrust laws in January 2013, the White House was watching closely. New emails uncovered by the Campaign for Accountability, a public interest watchdog organization, show that a…

That's one interpretation by interested parties another would be that enforcement lawyers are always aggressive and those who make the decision in the end would have to weigh the odds of winning in court and unanimously they decides not. Regardless, the FTC would have had a much better chance than the DOJ as they have specific broad powers more suitable to this case.

It's not so much an interpretation of what happened as it is a leak of what happened.

>The Federal Trade Commission on Thursday faced renewed questions about its handling of its antitrust investigation into Google, after documents revealed that an internal report had recommended stronger action.

The 2012 report, from the agency’s bureau of competition, said that the agency should sue the Internet search company for anticompetitive practices, according to several people who saw the report but would speak about it only under the condition of anonymity. At least one other staff report, they said, recommended not to pursue a lawsuit. In early 2013, the agency unanimously voted not to bring charges after an investigation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/20/technology/take-google-to...

Google has already lost several antitrust actions in the EU. It's not difficult to imagine that the investigation by FTC career officials found sufficient evidence of wrongdoing to recommend taking action.

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