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Billions wasted on Hadoop startups, the same will eventually be true of Docker

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Re: Billions wasted on Hadoop startups, the same will eventually be true of Docker

#201

Post by linuxftw »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #199
linuxftw wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beach volleyball is played typically with 2's or 4's. The rules are slightly different, court size is smaller. There are no positions in 2's, there are no position faults. Feel free to make analogies between two other similar sports, such as Competition Karate and Taekwon-Do.

I'm sorry but this still sounds like the same game to me. Why is it not called Beach 2-by-2-ball, or somethign similar, if the number of players makes it so very different? If I get a couple of my mates together and we bounce a ball over a net counting points when the ball hits the ground- how is what we're playing not (an informal game of) volleybal?

How is basketball different from indoor volleyball? They're both played indoors on a wooden floor court, both have two teams in opposition, playing simultaneously. Both have in bounds and out of bounds. Both have a ball. Both involve passing a ball. Both have scoring dictated by placement of the ball.

I mean, we can talk about things that make things similar all day, it doesn't make them the same thing. Is a hamburger a sandwich? Sometimes, the whole is greater than the parts, not everything is perfectly decomposable in life.

Re: Billions wasted on Hadoop startups, the same will eventually be true of Docker

#202

Post by anarazel »

throwaway082729 wrote: post #192
anarazel wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well. You're going to run out of CPU and memory bandwidth pretty quickly. So you'd need replicas to share processing load. But I honestly don't think hundreds of users each querying 100s of GBs is all that common.

Again, genuinely curious to learn if you've experience with enterprise companies using 'big data' technologies.

Yes.

Re: Billions wasted on Hadoop startups, the same will eventually be true of Docker

#203

Post by CraftThatBlock »

bayareanative wrote: post #20

Yup. Tech faabionabilism is akin to Big4/MBB FUD flavor of the quarter... populism/marketing doesn't a necessity make. Docker, Kubernetes, gulp, Hadoop, mosh, Nix, SmartOS, serverless, cloud, virtualization, [insert tech fashion hype > utility here]. Speaking of Hadoop: my vehicle is parked outside one of the HQ's of another top 10 Hadoop startup. It's one of the most expensive, nearly empty buildings in the highest…

How is mosh in there? Mosh is something to make ssh more reliable, how would that be a trend?

Re: Billions wasted on Hadoop startups, the same will eventually be true of Docker

#204

Post by nwmcsween »

treis wrote: post #143
archi42 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense, but you're aware you make it sound as if we used to use punch cards until the arrival of docker? You can often run daemons as different users and set appropriate file permissions. You can add ENV variables to your start up scripts or configuration files. Volumes are mounted by the system (and you set appropriate access rights again). Monitoring and restarting services is managed by your init system (and p…

>You can often run daemons as different users and set appropriate file permissions. You can add ENV variables to your start up scripts or configuration files. Volumes are mounted by the system (and you set appropriate access rights again). That sounds exactly like creating a Dockerfile. The difference is that your script has to work any number of times on an endless number of system configurations. The Dockerfile has…

Which sounds exactly like having a proper package manager...

Re: Billions wasted on Hadoop startups, the same will eventually be true of Docker

#205

Post by kkapelon »

otabdeveloper1 wrote: post #157
kkapelon wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are confusing Docker = the deployment artifact with Docker = self-contained runtime perfect for CI/CD Longer answer here https://thenewstack.io/docker-based-dynamic-tooling-a-freque...

I'm not. My point was that Docker purports to solve the sandboxing and security problems. In reality, this is something that 90% of people who use Docker don't give a shit about. For the vast majority Docker is just a nice and easy-to-use packaging format. The sad part is that a) Docker failed at security. b) In trying to solve the security problem Docker ended up with a pretty crufty (from a technical point of view)…

>My point was that Docker purports to solve the sandboxing and security problems.

Says who? The article I linked to you says nothing about security.

>Docker failed at security.

If somebody thinks security is the strong feature of Docker he/she is misinformed.

>For the vast majority Docker is just a nice and easy-to-use packaging format

For the vast majority of who? Developers? Sys admins? PMs?

The big advantage of docker is the self-contained environment for CI builds.

Re: Billions wasted on Hadoop startups, the same will eventually be true of Docker

#206

Post by nwmcsween »

misterman0 wrote: post #41
imtringued wrote: post #12

I don't understand how these are comparable. Hadoop solved a hard problem that nobody had. Docker solves a simple problem that everyone has. It would make sense if you're talking about kubernetes and using it to build hundreds of microservices because it's currently in fashion. Whether you're using Docker, Packer, Ansible or whatever doesn't matter. They are all a solution to the same problem and saying one is better…

>> Hadoop solved a hard problem that nobody had. I'm genuinely curious, if you want to search over big data, which should be a pretty common procedure these days, what alternatives are there to a distributed file system? A dfs seems very complex to me. And it is not clear too me what alternative system designs a dfs will outperform. Is a dfs the only solution to big data? Relational DBs do break down at a certain sca…

There is no such thing as 'big data' in terms of data, there is proper and improperly designed programs, Hadoop is in the latter.

Re: Billions wasted on Hadoop startups, the same will eventually be true of Docker

#207

Post by kkapelon »

xenospn wrote: post #189

So I've never used Docker, but it sounds an awful lot like FreeBSD Jails. How is it unique?

Much more userfriendly. Works on all major platforms. Big public repository (dockerhub). Extensive tooling for everything. Graphical and CLI tools for all kinds of users.

Re: Billions wasted on Hadoop startups, the same will eventually be true of Docker

#208

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

linuxftw wrote: post #201
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but this still sounds like the same game to me. Why is it not called Beach 2-by-2-ball, or somethign similar, if the number of players makes it so very different? If I get a couple of my mates together and we bounce a ball over a net counting points when the ball hits the ground- how is what we're playing not (an informal game of) volleybal?

How is basketball different from indoor volleyball? They're both played indoors on a wooden floor court, both have two teams in opposition, playing simultaneously. Both have in bounds and out of bounds. Both have a ball. Both involve passing a ball. Both have scoring dictated by placement of the ball. I mean, we can talk about things that make things similar all day, it doesn't make them the same thing. Is a hamburge…

>> How is basketball different from indoor volleyball?

Because one is about putting the ball through a basket and the other is about bouncing it over a net?

>> Is a hamburger a sandwich?

Yes, actually.

But, a very special kind of sandwich.

Re: Billions wasted on Hadoop startups, the same will eventually be true of Docker

#209

Post by ForHackernews »

rlpb wrote: post #66
ForHackernews wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sort of agree with this, but the advantage I see of Docker is in providing a "standard" (ymmv) interface that's less heavyweight than running an entire simulated virtual machine, but less dependent on the idiosyncrasies of a specific environment. I can give my coworker a docker image and it mostly "just work" without failing because she happens to be running a slightly different version of Ubuntu with different sys…

I think the author's point is: > I can give my coworker a docker image and it mostly "just work" without failing because she happens to be running a slightly different version of Ubuntu with different system libraries present. "I can give my coworker a VM image and it mostly "just work" without failing because she happens to be running a slightly different version of Ubuntu with different system libraries present." a…

Yeah, but a VM with virtualized hardware running a whole OS is so overkill for this use case.

Re: Billions wasted on Hadoop startups, the same will eventually be true of Docker

#210

Post by AmericanChopper »

robfig wrote: post #117
AmericanChopper wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All this money should have been spent on developing new, improving existing or switching to better (operating) systems which solve the resource and communication security problems But this isn’t the problem Docker is trying to solve. It’s just a problem that Docker needed to solve in order for their product to be useful, this is completely transparent to Docker users. Docker abstracts away a whole bunch of work you’…

I thought Docker builds are not generally repeatable, since they often `apt-get update && apt-get install`, which depends on the current state of external package management? They are definitely not reproducible in the sense of building bit-for-bit identical containers, unless you use Bazel. That being said, I've found Dockerfiles to be a much more reliable build process than most others (recently struggled to get th…

You’re correct, but how reproducible you’re builds end up being depends on how you use it, and how reproducible you need them to be depends on your use case. Maybe a particular use case wouldn’t fit in very well, maybe it would be better served by using something like packer, maybe your dependency management requirements mean you should use something like artifactory. No technology is going to be suitable for everybody’s needs, but Docker provides enough value to enough people that it’s found a place in the market. If it Docker dies, I’d imagine it would be because it was replaced by something better, not because people suddenly realized that they weren’t getting any value out of it.
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