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I Grew Up Gifted, but My Life Didn’t Turn Out the Way I Expected

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Re: I Grew Up Gifted, but My Life Didn’t Turn Out the Way I Expected

#361
post #36

Part of the issue here is defining what it means to “achieve”. I was a gifted child and graduated at the top of my fancy Ivy League university. Did I go on to conquer the world? No. And many days I stress and feel bad about that. But that’s mostly when I allow myself to judge myself by the external validation system of society. Society values a big bank account or fancy awards which is fine. A happy life spent with f…

If you are happy, you can probably consider yourself successful. If you are 'successful', it is by no means a given that you are happy.

Re: I Grew Up Gifted, but My Life Didn’t Turn Out the Way I Expected

#362
post #280
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mind giving an example or two of how you push or pushed your kids in a positive way?

I didn't say I pushed them in a positive way :) Sometimes they need their heads pounded figuratively. But generally, I talk to them about their goals and ask them if they really want them. Usually the answer is yes. Then I say something like "Are you willing to give up some play time with fortnite (or equivalent)" to achieve your goal? Usually the answer is yes. Then I ask them how they will know they are getting clo…

How old are your kids? My worry is that if I do this with my future kids they'll simply tell me what I want to hear since they won't have developed a clear understanding of what they want in life and what's possible to do in life.

Re: I Grew Up Gifted, but My Life Didn’t Turn Out the Way I Expected

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m so glad I had parents who encouraged in me what you are encouraging in your children. I was accepted to a very prestigious university, and as my friends, their parents, and other adults (including some family) found out, there was mostly encouragement to just go there. The attitude was, “why wouldn’t I want to go there? Just think of the opportunity!” They we’re shocked I was thinking of attending a state school…

Which “very prestigious school” doesn’t have financial aid? Any elite school will be much cheaper than a state school (possibly free) if you don’t have very wealthy parents.

You can have "not wealthy parents" and still not get approval for financial aid if you're over a certain threshold. And plenty of people get into prestigious schools but don't have the grades/accolades to get a merit scholarship.

And with the cost of schools only rising, the impact on families that might appear "well off" only increases too. So people get loans. And maybe that loan will be worth it and the networking you do will pay for it. Or maybe it won't.

I would argue that for many people, unless it's not just an elite school but THE elite school, it probably doesn't pay off.

Re: I Grew Up Gifted, but My Life Didn’t Turn Out the Way I Expected

#364
post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, my goals are to have an interesting job (i.e. using a modern tech stack) I always wonder why using a modern tech is interesting? Let's say there's a job where you're using J2EE 1.4 or some other outdated technology from the early 2000s. The thing is, I remember when that technology was hot shit and people considered working on it very interesting. So, it looks like, over the course of time, doing the ve…

I think it's mostly job security. I've worked on many technologies that I really enjoyed despite the flaws that every tech has (Flash for example) that have 0 jobs 10 years later.

On the other hand, if you are a COBOL expert today, you will be in high demand and will make enormous amounts of money.

Re: I Grew Up Gifted, but My Life Didn’t Turn Out the Way I Expected

#365
post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may sound ridiculous (you're going to laugh), but when I find myself stressing over superficial things, it helps me to think of the song "The Grand Illusion" by Styx. To me, no words better sum up the odd complexity that has emerged from humanity. It's my mantra. My wife's mantra is equally ridiculous and true: "it just doesn't matter" from Bill Murray's monologue in Meatballs. Maybe one of these mantras will help…

If it doesn't matter, why go to the job at all?

Some of us like to eat.

Re: I Grew Up Gifted, but My Life Didn’t Turn Out the Way I Expected

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, you have to challenge them and give them the opportunity to work hard. I think schools get lazy with gifted kids. Gifted kids deserve to be challenged and put to the limits of their abilities the same as non-gifted children, but schools just don't do that. Tracking children by ability in the US has been labeled elitist. Funding often isn't there for enrichment programs. Parents are expected to provi…

I'm just going to keep posting this when the subject comes up... "A 20-year longitudinal study has traced the academic, social, and emotional development of 60 young Australians with IQs of 160 and above. Significant differences have been noted in the young people’s educational status and direction, life satisfaction, social relationships, and self-esteem as a function of the degree of academic acceleration their sch…

I was transferred from a poorer middle school and my HS admin prevented me from going into the accelerated classes. I had a bad time in university and have not been able to return.

It hurts me every day. I hope it will get better, but I do not see it happening in this life.

Re: I Grew Up Gifted, but My Life Didn’t Turn Out the Way I Expected

#367
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally I agree with your view, but there are real hiring problems that have to be solved first. >if Elon Musk comes out and says SpaceX considers a cert from $NetflixOfEducation as equal to an engineering degree from MIT on a resume... then it's all over. If 50 developers apply for a job and 3 of them are from MIT and 47 are from lesser known schools, using the MIT signal as a filter is efficient. If $NetflixOfEdu…

> If $NetflixOfEducation is too accessible and half of the applicants have it, then it loses its value as a hiring signal. Only for companies who hire for signals. For companies that hire for throughput this does not hold.

I actually think it's a bit more complicated than that. For a large company trying to fill a ton of openings, I think where you went to college is actually an even more important filtering criteria (ie an Ivy League degree is almost an automatic pass from resume to phone screen), but the list of colleges that get a near automatic pass is larger.

Re: I Grew Up Gifted, but My Life Didn’t Turn Out the Way I Expected

#368
post #359
post #36

Part of the issue here is defining what it means to “achieve”. I was a gifted child and graduated at the top of my fancy Ivy League university. Did I go on to conquer the world? No. And many days I stress and feel bad about that. But that’s mostly when I allow myself to judge myself by the external validation system of society. Society values a big bank account or fancy awards which is fine. A happy life spent with f…

What if "being happy" for them means watching Youtube all day and playing computer games? That's what I'm struggling with with my 15 year old. This is currently affecting his GPA to the point where it'd limit his college options to community college, and maybe not even that (since you do have to work even there to not fail). I simply can't convince him that this is not a good use of his time, and he will regret it pr…

When you're "addicted" it is hard to get perspective.

Not sure about your situation or feasibility, but banning the activity for 30 days might clear the fog. There are blogs about journalists giving up Twitter temporarily for example.

Another angle might be explaining the difference between a creator and consumer.

Re: I Grew Up Gifted, but My Life Didn’t Turn Out the Way I Expected

#369
post #261
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who also follows the rules well like your sibling (but isn't gifted), the more time passes the more I understand it to be a serious character flaw.

Why/how did you come to that conclusion? I'm surprised to see that self-reflection and conclusion of following rules is a character flaw.

First of all my statement should be taken with a huge grain of salt. I make no claims towards any sort of universal observation about human nature, but rather a set of general principles that I believe to be worth examining.

- Breaking rules can help you grow as a person. Anecdotally, the people from my youth who ended up being the happiest adults were those who tested the boundaries early on and fit the "lovable rogue" archetype. This experimentation gave them leeway to understand themselves better and their mischievous but life-affirming behavior made them paradoxically more appreciated and valued by others than youths who never rocked the boat. The latter are left unsure that they will still be loved in case they stop conforming to expectations.[0]

- Many valued traits and rules in the modern world aren't that valuable. To echo Taleb's green lumber story [1], you can spend your time gaining accolades and achievements such as medals on a debating team or knowledge of trivia and then wonder why someone you secretly judge to be inferior to you is doing much better. The reality is that your judgment was based on peripheral metrics that instilled a false sense of superiority, even if those actions may have helped you a bit in some indirect way. What matters are the core traits that help you provide value to others and secure your position in the world. Unfortunately for rule followers, there is an inundation of not-so-useful rules and contests that cloud your judgment. For instance, some people end up in graduate school with no clear interest or purpose because it gives them the illusion that they are being productive and moving forward according to commonly accepted metrics. Or more commonly, you have people taking cold showers or waking up at 4:00 am because they learned that's what the 30 under 30 fellow they just read about does.

- As a corollary to this, to be a healthy adult you need to exercise critical thinking and reason from first principles pretty damn often. The most captivating people do seem to have an intuitive understanding of what is essential to a good life and what isn't. They are prepared to examine rules and make bold choices as to whether to follow them or not. Paradoxically, understanding of when you should in fact coöperate with the system allows them to do so more smoothly when the need arises.[2]

In the modern world, rules aren't always to the individual's interest. Some people go on a box-ticking spree like godzillabrennus' sibling and end up feeling empty handed. But the entities that draw up those boxes always had their own interests in mind, whether or not the boxes' design was the result of direct action or organic development. The rules can change themselves in an instant, or be completely irrelevant if some other factor changes. In our world, you end up with VCs and billionaires telling underpaid employees to stop moaning, internalize hustle porn and work themselves to death for rewards that will in all likelihood never come. Some of these folks end up spending their hard earned salary on Veblen goods [3] that are simultaneously too expensive to their freedom and too cheap to even give them the status they seek.

- Directly linked to that is the notion of ressentiment. [4] To some limited extent, our moral rules can be interpreted as a tool to comfort the weak. If you are too keen to follow the rules, you end up with a ton of ressentiment because you often find yourself trapped in peripheral pursuits. You neglect to fulfill important needs out of a stronger need to conform. You die having never really lived.

If you look at people like Trump, they are essentially modern-day Diogenes whether they realize it or not. Their behavior strips away the abstract and peripheral metrics (being classy, having a certain demeanor etc.), leaving only the raw power balance. This creates extreme anger and frustration because a person might look at such an individual and judge him to be inferior according to some ressentiment-based rules but then be unable to reconcile that impression with their obvious relative lack of power and importance.

Rule breakers are more aware of the power balance and what society actually rewards and generally tend to pursue that without fear. That doesn't mean they end up being sociopaths (although obviously you have your fair share of those), in fact it can lead them to being better people because they take on traits that others genuinely value. They let go of resentment because they lead a life-affirming existence, whereas many instinctive rule followers find themselves building up a degree of resentment that poisons their character over time. Rule breakers can help others more easily because they are themselves in a stronger psychological position and have more of their needs met.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DTIzzf6ncg [1] https://fs.blog/2016/11/green-lumber-fallacy/ [2] https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/YouAndYourResearch.html [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ressentiment

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