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Bitcoin's Rally Masks Uncomfortable Fact: Almost Nobody Uses It

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Re: Bitcoin's Rally Masks Uncomfortable Fact: Almost Nobody Uses It

#71

Post by Nursie »

sprash wrote: post #62
jraedisch wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate on how one would keep an asset artificially low?

You can't. What is more likely is that central banks that can print infinite amounts of their own money are buying up bitcoin in order to make it useless. Bitcoin is seen as competitor by central banks. The same happened to gold. As soon as one entity controlled the vast majority of gold the price ceased to be stable. Central banks already essentially destroyed gold as payment method. If central banks only sell 1% of…

> Bitcoin is seen as competitor by central banks.

Some 'coiners actually believe this. Wow.

Most assessments of Bitcoin's potential impact on the economy come out saying it's negligible.

Re: Bitcoin's Rally Masks Uncomfortable Fact: Almost Nobody Uses It

#72

Post by netwanderer3 »

jfengel wrote: post #66
jraedisch wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate on how one would keep an asset artificially low?

You can short it: borrow, sell, and then buy back when the price drops to pay back what you borrowed.

Exactly! BTC futures or derivatives were precisely the tools that were used. With Bitcoin derivatives, essentially you don't even need to own any Bitcoin at the present to trade since it's a future contract.

BTC price reached its peak at $20,000 on December 17, 2017 which happened to be the exact same date that the CME Group (Chicago Mercantile Exchange) became the first provider of Bitcoin derivatives to the market. Immediately BTC price started dropping down the next day and it went down all the way to $13,000 only within the next five days! Not much needed to be said after that.

FYI: https://ethereumworldnews.com/report-crypto-platform-bakkt-u...

Re: Bitcoin's Rally Masks Uncomfortable Fact: Almost Nobody Uses It

#73

Post by jraedisch »

netwanderer3 wrote: post #72
jfengel wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can short it: borrow, sell, and then buy back when the price drops to pay back what you borrowed.

Exactly! BTC futures or derivatives were precisely the tools that were used. With Bitcoin derivatives, essentially you don't even need to own any Bitcoin at the present to trade since it's a future contract. BTC price reached its peak at $20,000 on December 17, 2017 which happened to be the exact same date that the CME Group (Chicago Mercantile Exchange) became the first provider of Bitcoin derivatives to the market.…

Then why isn't everybody shorting everything all the time?

Re: Bitcoin's Rally Masks Uncomfortable Fact: Almost Nobody Uses It

#74

Post by sprash »

netwanderer3 wrote: post #72
jfengel wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can short it: borrow, sell, and then buy back when the price drops to pay back what you borrowed.

Exactly! BTC futures or derivatives were precisely the tools that were used. With Bitcoin derivatives, essentially you don't even need to own any Bitcoin at the present to trade since it's a future contract. BTC price reached its peak at $20,000 on December 17, 2017 which happened to be the exact same date that the CME Group (Chicago Mercantile Exchange) became the first provider of Bitcoin derivatives to the market.…

Just because you can short futures doesn't mean you can effectively short bitcoin. You see this immediately if you look at the forward prices which are vastly different from the actual price.

There is no instrument to borrow and short real Bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin's Rally Masks Uncomfortable Fact: Almost Nobody Uses It

#75

Post by sprash »

Nursie wrote: post #71
sprash wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't. What is more likely is that central banks that can print infinite amounts of their own money are buying up bitcoin in order to make it useless. Bitcoin is seen as competitor by central banks. The same happened to gold. As soon as one entity controlled the vast majority of gold the price ceased to be stable. Central banks already essentially destroyed gold as payment method. If central banks only sell 1% of…

> Bitcoin is seen as competitor by central banks. Some 'coiners actually believe this. Wow. Most assessments of Bitcoin's potential impact on the economy come out saying it's negligible.

Oh really. Just wait until the police and military demands to be paid with bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin's Rally Masks Uncomfortable Fact: Almost Nobody Uses It

#76

Post by jraedisch »

sprash wrote: post #68
jraedisch wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should all btc holders sell all their holdings, especially if price is steadily rising, since central banks are inflating money supply to buy more?

Because there is an artificial eternal demand for fiat. Fiat is created as debt with interest. This means the total debt can never be payed except with more debt. As soon as the state ceases to use force to collect debt, fiat will be worthless.

If I buy BTC and prices rise enough, I can sell for more than I paid, pay my debt and still keep some. In this scenario the majority of people who did not buy BTC or other less inflationary assets will suffer a lot more than me.

Re: Bitcoin's Rally Masks Uncomfortable Fact: Almost Nobody Uses It

#77

Post by netwanderer3 »

jraedisch wrote: post #73
netwanderer3 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! BTC futures or derivatives were precisely the tools that were used. With Bitcoin derivatives, essentially you don't even need to own any Bitcoin at the present to trade since it's a future contract. BTC price reached its peak at $20,000 on December 17, 2017 which happened to be the exact same date that the CME Group (Chicago Mercantile Exchange) became the first provider of Bitcoin derivatives to the market.…

Then why isn't everybody shorting everything all the time?

Because traditionally short positions carry more risks. You would only keep short positions for a long period of time if you have enormous amount of capital to sustain it. Short selling strategies and derivatives were often utilized to artificially deflate prices and conduct “bear raids” on vulnerable stocks.

Re: Bitcoin's Rally Masks Uncomfortable Fact: Almost Nobody Uses It

#78

Post by sprash »

jraedisch wrote: post #76
sprash wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there is an artificial eternal demand for fiat. Fiat is created as debt with interest. This means the total debt can never be payed except with more debt. As soon as the state ceases to use force to collect debt, fiat will be worthless.

If I buy BTC and prices rise enough, I can sell for more than I paid, pay my debt and still keep some. In this scenario the majority of people who did not buy BTC or other less inflationary assets will suffer a lot more than me.

If you can stomach the volatility and really like risk just go ahead and max out all your credit cards. Just don't be the guy who buys the top.

Re: Bitcoin's Rally Masks Uncomfortable Fact: Almost Nobody Uses It

#79

Post by Nursie »

sprash wrote: post #75
Nursie wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bitcoin is seen as competitor by central banks. Some 'coiners actually believe this. Wow. Most assessments of Bitcoin's potential impact on the economy come out saying it's negligible.

Oh really. Just wait until the police and military demands to be paid with bitcoin.

Wow, it gets better! The police and the army are coiners now too?

This is comedy gold.

Re: Bitcoin's Rally Masks Uncomfortable Fact: Almost Nobody Uses It

#80

Post by netwanderer3 »

sprash wrote: post #74
netwanderer3 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! BTC futures or derivatives were precisely the tools that were used. With Bitcoin derivatives, essentially you don't even need to own any Bitcoin at the present to trade since it's a future contract. BTC price reached its peak at $20,000 on December 17, 2017 which happened to be the exact same date that the CME Group (Chicago Mercantile Exchange) became the first provider of Bitcoin derivatives to the market.…

Just because you can short futures doesn't mean you can effectively short bitcoin. You see this immediately if you look at the forward prices which are vastly different from the actual price. There is no instrument to borrow and short real Bitcoin.

I'm not sure if I understood you correctly as there are multiple ways one can short Bitcoin at the moment if they wish to. But in the end I think we all need to remember that any theory presented by anyone here would only serve as a hypothesis based on speculation. There's no way to prove it as nobody really knows what's going on except those key individuals involved.
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