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New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

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Re: New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

#41

Post by lordnacho »

isnetea wrote: post #3

I’ve cut off all family and friends for a long period of time now, and discontinued my career/work after finally reaching a cynical point of no return a few years ago. My only interactions at this point are with food service workers at the store or coffee shop, or other shopping/errands. Perhaps this is a variant of Hikikomori. In fact, the characteristics of one for me are essentially spot on, except that I’m more o…

You're clearly a good writer, able to express your thoughts eloquently.

But I am not comfortable with letting someone plan to kill themselves without being sure that person is making a reasonable decision. And when it comes to ending your life, you need to be more than sure, so it's worth checking with someone experienced with this.

I hope the HN moderators can do something. I don't think this is like any other comment on HN that everyone can just send out a witty or bold remark in response to.

Re: New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

#42

Post by yownie »

iSnow wrote: post #38
pippy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It’s my own shortcoming Physiologically, there's comfort in knowing that your community and government has your back. Increased depression rates, mental health issues rising, and social isolation is a result of living in a Neo-liberal multicultural society. Living in this society where your personal value is based from how much you earn gives arise to a vapid nihilistic existence. When your government doesn't back i…

>This is disappearing from western society. Hikis are most numerous in Japan. Japan's society is not forced to open up by ((them)).

them?

Re: New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

#44

Post by raducu »

trevyn wrote: post #37
therp43 wrote: post #29

Is there really anything to gain from contact with society? Most people run some sort of scam. I ghosted a few years ago after bad divorce, and it was very good decision.

I’ve also noticed the perspective that a majority people seem to “have an angle”, whether that’s an outright financial scam, emotional manipulation, some sort of hustle, wanting to monetize your brain by employing you, or whatever. Interested to hear other people’s observations related to this.

Not to forget they want to fuck you if you're a woman. But there are people who genuinely also want friends, but they are rare as you age.

Re: New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

#45

Post by jddj »

trevyn wrote: post #37
therp43 wrote: post #29

Is there really anything to gain from contact with society? Most people run some sort of scam. I ghosted a few years ago after bad divorce, and it was very good decision.

I’ve also noticed the perspective that a majority people seem to “have an angle”, whether that’s an outright financial scam, emotional manipulation, some sort of hustle, wanting to monetize your brain by employing you, or whatever. Interested to hear other people’s observations related to this.

Some communities are more transactional than others.

Everyone has an angle in that we're generally a social species and being around people we like and who confirm our worldviews and validate our ways of life (and make us laugh) gives us pleasure (to varying extents along the introvert to extrovert continuum), but the result of that is that some interactions are just that, interactions for the sake of interaction with no higher or lower motive than enjoyment.

If your social experiences actually end up more like businesspeople networking, which is certainly something that happens in many circles, then the transactional nature of it all can definitely become far too obvious and off-putting.

Re: New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

#46

Post by bdsa »

yownie wrote: post #42
iSnow wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is disappearing from western society. Hikis are most numerous in Japan. Japan's society is not forced to open up by ((them)).

them?

I think he meant to use three parentheses, he's being anti-Semitic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_parentheses

Re: New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

#47

Post by AllegedAlec »

dkersten wrote: post #39
AllegedAlec wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethically: yeah.

Why? Sorry, I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, I'm just trying to understand your point of view. The way I see it is if he's made up his mind, then there are really three possible outcomes by suggesting drugs: 1. best case, he feels better, yay! 2. worst case, it makes him worse, he kills himself, but was going to do so anyway. :( 3. he has an interesting experience before the end. I don't see any ethica…

Because you do not know how the trip will impact him. It could be that he self-harms in a way which only makes things permanently worse. It could be that he hurts others during the trip.

There are so many factors which could go badly wrong that it is (in my opinion) unethical to suggest this is a good approach.

Re: New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

#48

Post by vfinn »

Hikitomoris often have low status. They aren't respected in the eyes of their peers, because they lack either a job, skills/education, a spouse, or looks. So when they talk with their peers, they feel inferior, and are often reminded about their position. That's why they rather step aside. Some of them are unwilling to integrate with the ill values the society has, and that paralyzes them, since they don't have where to go. Mental issues are related to this matter, at least partly caused by the system, and maybe childhood experiences, traumas, etc. The longer they stay isolated, the more they fall behind, and the harder it gets for them to go out and compete.

Re: New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

#49

Post by willio58 »

AllegedAlec wrote: post #47
dkersten wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Sorry, I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, I'm just trying to understand your point of view. The way I see it is if he's made up his mind, then there are really three possible outcomes by suggesting drugs: 1. best case, he feels better, yay! 2. worst case, it makes him worse, he kills himself, but was going to do so anyway. :( 3. he has an interesting experience before the end. I don't see any ethica…

Because you do not know how the trip will impact him. It could be that he self-harms in a way which only makes things permanently worse. It could be that he hurts others during the trip. There are so many factors which could go badly wrong that it is (in my opinion) unethical to suggest this is a good approach.

If only mentally healthy people took psychedelic drugs, almost nobody would take psychedelic drugs. There is no true answer to who should take them. Even those who seem healthiest among us now could break under the mental strain of these drugs. And those who seem most mentally unhealthy could stand to benefit the most. And to assume that suicidal thoughts equates to someone being dangerous is just as “retarded” as calling the idea of this person taking psychedelic drugs “retarded”.

Re: New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

#50

Post by dkersten »

AllegedAlec wrote: post #47
dkersten wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Sorry, I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, I'm just trying to understand your point of view. The way I see it is if he's made up his mind, then there are really three possible outcomes by suggesting drugs: 1. best case, he feels better, yay! 2. worst case, it makes him worse, he kills himself, but was going to do so anyway. :( 3. he has an interesting experience before the end. I don't see any ethica…

Because you do not know how the trip will impact him. It could be that he self-harms in a way which only makes things permanently worse. It could be that he hurts others during the trip. There are so many factors which could go badly wrong that it is (in my opinion) unethical to suggest this is a good approach.

Ok, I understand. Thanks!

What if they took some precautions, eg someone was with them to make sure that they don't do any harm (to themselves or others)? People generally recommend that one take psychedelics with a sitter, after all. Or is the concern also about their mental state in the coming days/weeks/however long after the trip?

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