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MapR may shut down as investor pulls out after ‘extremely poor results’

siliconangle.com

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Re: MapR may shut down as investor pulls out after ‘extremely poor results’

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I think MapR missed the mark. They had a software only solution one could deploy on a top of generic hardware in a data center to solve hundreds of TB to small number of PB storage problem that was real for enterprises and since those nodes would also be able to do compute jobs that was the way to get enterprises to adapt that technology. Going to object store was possible but it required dev time and in t…

Interesting post. Out of curiosity: aren't there others who have developed cluster storage exposed as NFS / FUSE?

They all sucked. MapR sucked the least. Considering a comparable EMC solution was ~20x more expensive and less flexible, MapR happened to be in the right place at the right time with the right software but blew it because they decided they knew better what the customers needed to buy vs what the customers wanted to buy.

Fundamentally, file system clusters are a very difficult business to get into and make enough money to justify being in that business. On a low end there's open source stuff that kind of sort of works. Selling consulting on a top of it is at best a ramen-profitable business. No one is buying a Ceph-consulting for a million dollars if they run a business that needs that size of storage -- the data is too valuable to do a semi-custom solution and be a test case for Ceph, Gluster, etc.

On the top end there are EMCs of the world with $350K/node pricing + yearly 10% support contract. Finally, there's a "rewrite the app" alternative ( call it 1 year, million $ price tag to move to object store ) that a customer company is always considering.

So the sweet spot is enterprise solution with a license cost of about $12k-$24k per year per node which has EMC/Isilon/NetApp-like functionality that unbundles software from hardware. The tricky part is that it needs to be a proven solution that works on the comparable EMC/Isilon/NetApp sized deployments. To do that one needs to have a lot of excellent engineers that cost a lot of money, a lot of sales engineers that intrinsically understand the commonality between the customers' requirements and can explain it to those engineers and a lot of very expensive test beds.

Re: MapR may shut down as investor pulls out after ‘extremely poor results’

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hadoop's whole appeal was it was cheap and scalable. Did it actually work without serious engineering teams maintaining each distribution? absolutely not. the hype was purely VC funded. fast forward 10 years and hadoop has basically been killed off by hosted storage services that are more expensive but 10000x easier to manage.

Do you actually work in this industry ? Because Hadoop has not been killed off. In fact it is far bigger than it has ever been and growing each year. It's just that it is all transitioning to the cloud with parts like HDFS being replaced with more scalable solutions like S3/EMRFS. But you can't say it's been killed off when on AWS you have managed Hadoop (EMR), managed Hadoop pipelines (DataPipeline) managed Spark (G…

> Because Hadoop has not been killed off.

> HDFS being replaced with more scalable solutions like S3/EMRFS.

Thank you for re-affirming my point.

I'm not going to go into the typical HN "I'm going to nitpick your point down to the bone and argue you over the pointless details", but 2012 Hadoop is not the same thing as the tools you're describing.

Re: MapR may shut down as investor pulls out after ‘extremely poor results’

#53
post #2

So, that would mean the hadoop distro market would be down to just cloudera? A single vendor market is not a market, it's a legacy product.

Actually, there is another vendor. A new one - www.logicalclocks.com - we are selling a next-generation version of Hadoop, with consistent distributed metadata for HDFS, it's built on TLS/SSL (not kerberos), and it's laser focussed on Data Science. We have customers with racks with 10s of GPUs training models with 10s of TBs of feature data. And we also built the industry's first enterprise feature store for ML on this platform.

References:

https://www.logicalclocks.com/feature-store/

https://www.logicalclocks.com/introducing-hops-hadoop/

Re: MapR may shut down as investor pulls out after ‘extremely poor results’

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not someone very much in the "big data" [0] but from what I see streaming analytics especially Spark-based solutions are eating the world that used to be dominated by Hadoop. I also think cloud based data lakes and tooling around them seriously decreased the appeal of Hadoop. [0] If I can fit your big data into my memory, it is not "big data".

Spark is very much part of Hadoop. It uses Hadoop libraries throughout it including for the core part of reading/writing data And that adage of big data can't fit in memory is nonsense these days. We run clusters with hundreds of terabytes of RAM which is very much big data. It's pretty easy and affordable with the cloud.

When was the last time you bought a MapR license to use it in a cloud?

When MapR was selling them the M5 and M7 were deployed in a data center on servers.

Re: MapR may shut down as investor pulls out after ‘extremely poor results’

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting post. Out of curiosity: aren't there others who have developed cluster storage exposed as NFS / FUSE?

They all sucked. MapR sucked the least. Considering a comparable EMC solution was ~20x more expensive and less flexible, MapR happened to be in the right place at the right time with the right software but blew it because they decided they knew better what the customers needed to buy vs what the customers wanted to buy. Fundamentally, file system clusters are a very difficult business to get into and make enough mone…

Thanks for taking the time! Its fascinating learning about this in an area (storage) I know nothing about.

Re: MapR may shut down as investor pulls out after ‘extremely poor results’

#56
post #4

MapR has been reduced. Hadoop was the floppy disk of big data. Ubiquitous, but always beat by other solutions.

This is simply not true. Hadoop is growing massively. All that is happening is that the vendors are being killed by the cloud.

I've seen Hadoop and HDFS dying off, and being replaced by Spark, S3, and Azure Storage. There is also a lot of good work being done by DataBricks in creating an easy to manage spark platform.

Re: MapR may shut down as investor pulls out after ‘extremely poor results’

#57

We're seeing a lot of regret around sprawling Hadoop deployments, so this doesn't surprise me. Other Hadoop vendors (vendor?) pivoting to machine learning is a bandaid as the compute capabilities scale beyond HDFS's performance limitations. Look towards new-gen startups around NVME/NVMEOF (WekaIO, Excelero, E8, etc etc) to fill the void. The question is going to be: will anyone provide an intelligent way to maintain…

We build a next-gen version of HDFS (HopsFS) that has distributed, consistent, transactional metadata where small files ( https://www.logicalclocks.com/millions-and-millions-of-files... Our business model is to build a data science platform, Hopsworks, around our distributed metadata layer. And yes we use YARN (training models) and also Kubernetes (serving models). The choice of resource mgr is really just an impleme…

Very interesting! I did not know that this existed. I know some people who will be interested.

Re: MapR may shut down as investor pulls out after ‘extremely poor results’

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We build a next-gen version of HDFS (HopsFS) that has distributed, consistent, transactional metadata where small files ( https://www.logicalclocks.com/millions-and-millions-of-files... Our business model is to build a data science platform, Hopsworks, around our distributed metadata layer. And yes we use YARN (training models) and also Kubernetes (serving models). The choice of resource mgr is really just an impleme…

Very interesting! I did not know that this existed. I know some people who will be interested.

Some background reading/viewing: https://www.logicalclocks.com/eventscustom/

Re: MapR may shut down as investor pulls out after ‘extremely poor results’

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you actually work in this industry ? Because Hadoop has not been killed off. In fact it is far bigger than it has ever been and growing each year. It's just that it is all transitioning to the cloud with parts like HDFS being replaced with more scalable solutions like S3/EMRFS. But you can't say it's been killed off when on AWS you have managed Hadoop (EMR), managed Hadoop pipelines (DataPipeline) managed Spark (G…

> Because Hadoop has not been killed off. > HDFS being replaced with more scalable solutions like S3/EMRFS. Thank you for re-affirming my point. I'm not going to go into the typical HN "I'm going to nitpick your point down to the bone and argue you over the pointless details", but 2012 Hadoop is not the same thing as the tools you're describing.

Except you’re not being just a bit inaccurate, you’re flat wrong.

Simply put, Hadoop is not HDFS, it is a much larger Apache ecosystem that includes Spark, Hive, MR, NiFi, etc. All of which are doing fine.

Re: MapR may shut down as investor pulls out after ‘extremely poor results’

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We build a next-gen version of HDFS (HopsFS) that has distributed, consistent, transactional metadata where small files ( https://www.logicalclocks.com/millions-and-millions-of-files... Our business model is to build a data science platform, Hopsworks, around our distributed metadata layer. And yes we use YARN (training models) and also Kubernetes (serving models). The choice of resource mgr is really just an impleme…

Very interesting! I did not know that this existed. I know some people who will be interested.

And it works in the cloud - HA and high throughput. On Spotify's Hadoop workload, we got 1.6 million file system ops/secs, highly available over 3 availability zones. On GCE.
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