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Gab will become a Mastodon fork

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Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#241

Post by layoutIfNeeded »

loceng wrote: post #64
smacktoward wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A nice thing about Mastodon/ActivityPub is that administrators of "instances" (which means basically each running copy of the server software; you create a user account with a specific Mastodon instance, rather than with Mastodon itself) can disable federation with individual other instances, if they want to. So if a particular instance becomes a haven for trolls or other miscreants, you can block that entire instanc…

Okay cool. I wonder does that mean Gab is able to use and benefit from any apps/tools created for Mastodon instances - or would it be possible for the owners of those apps/tools themselves to block/prevent certain instances from benefiting? I'd hope that's the case so everyone has the ability to 'vote' for who they are supporting.

Mastodon is basically a protocol. Replace “Mastodon” with “HTTP” and you’ll see why your comment makes no sense:

“Okay cool. I wonder does that mean Gab is able to use and benefit from any apps/tools created for HTTP servers - or would it be possible for the owners of those apps/tools themselves to block/prevent certain servers from benefiting? I'd hope that's the case so everyone has the ability to 'vote' for who they are supporting.”

Yes, releasing Free software means that even Osama Bin Laden or Hitler would be able to use it freely, whether the author likes it or not.

Yes, it’s a good thing.

Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#242

Post by not_a_cop75 »

gfodor wrote: post #122
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the Mastodon network will ban Gab immediately (and the founder of Gab acknowledges as much in the comments of the article), community dilution is very unlikely. But they will get to share federation with a variety of other alt-right and free speech zone Mastodon servers which have been banned by the larger fediverse community.

As it should be -- by community dilution I was referring more to mind share around Mastodon and also the likelihood that Gab's community would soften its alt-right focus if it's able to get traction with a wider audience that may lean right but is not hard right. I think this kind of federation for under-served audiences, combined with good productization, is a necessary step towards a future where fan-out 'microblog…

It's hard to really claim Gab is alt-right when the truth is really more that it's alt anything. Remember the good old days of usenet, where alt represented all the usenet "channels" that basically didn't give a damn and weren't sponsored by anyone in particular? Sure you had your flame wars, but back then no one got banned for it. The advantage of services like Twitter is that whatever agenda Twitter wants to control, they control. The ability to control the narrative is certainly a profitable one. What was the quote? When the service is free, you're the product. Think on that.

Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#243

Post by graenxa »

kgraves wrote: post #88

As much as I hate the bad parts of Gab, I am glad they are standing up to their principles of being a truly free speech social network. The other social networks just love to censor everybody they disagree with, even a particular orange looking website. I am also excited and glad they are utilising open source software as well. (This was bound to happen sooner or later) This can make activitypub & decentralised netwo…

Gab is not a free speech social network. Gab is a white supremacy social network. Gab has actively courted white supramcists[0], white supremacists make up the vast majority of their userbase[1].

I understand and respect your deep support of free speech. But please, take a step back here and think about what you are saying you are glad about.

Are you really glad a group of people decided to roll up their sleeves and build a platform for white supremacists? Is that really an admirable use of someone's time, energy, and expertise?

[0] https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/30/tech/gab-anti-semitic-speech-...

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2018/10/31/silicon...

Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#244

Post by busterarm »

spamizbad wrote: post #195
Fins wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that Twitter's definition of "nazis" basically is "anyone we don't like, which isn't exactly useful for the overall benefit of humanity. Sort of like how FB recently said that they are going to deplatform white supremacists. Why not all supremacists, while you're at it, or don't pretend that you are doing something for any kind of greater good...

But it's not limited to "white" nationalists. They recently deplatformed infamous anti-semite and black nationalist Louis Farrakhan. And before anyone says this guy has always been a crank: he was actively being courted by Repulicans like Jack Kemp in the 1980s back when his anti-communist views were deemed politically useful.

> And before anyone says this guy has always been a crank: he was actively being courted by Repulicans like Jack Kemp in the 1980s back when his anti-communist views were deemed politically useful.

Maybe such a claim is useful to you but it really doesn't hold up to scrutiny. I grew up in the 80s, in a conservative household, and in New York City - Jack Kemp's home turf.

His political career was effectively over by 1982, taking 6 years to really die and I don't think I heard his name mentioned a single time in the 15 years I grew up having to listen to conservative talk radio all day every day.

What I did have to hear though, starting from the beginning of Bob Grant's era through Sliwa's morning and Limbaugh's afternoon shows, was what a threat to American society Louis Farrakhan was. He literally was enemy number one in the crosshairs of right-wing talk radio hosts for nearly 20 years.

Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#245

Post by robobro »

phoe-krk wrote: post #32
javagram wrote: post #4

> “Moving to the ActivityPub protocol as our base allows us to get into mobile App Stores without even having to submit and get approval of our own apps, whether Apple and Google like it or not.“ The perils (or benefits?) of open protocols. Existing mastodon/pleroma clients will be able to connect to Gab by adding a server setting. Now I wonder if mastodon client app developers will start filtering the allowed server…

> Now I wonder if mastodon client app developers will start filtering the allowed servers users can put in... This is not the duty of client applications. Banning instances is the duty of the operators of individual instances, and the instance(s) on which you have your account(s) are the instance(s) whose blocking policy affects you. This is a feature. Most sane instances on the Fediverse already ban extremist and al…

WAHA, brain behind a major Mastodon app, has claimed they're blocking Gab in his client and that users can't unblock Gab.

As a free software guy, this troubles me.

This is on par with firefox deciding which websites they should block.

(In fact the Oculus Browser blocks 4chan / 8ch / other sites)

Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#246

Post by gizmo686 »

justin66 wrote: post #233
ryanmarsh wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In spite of the fact that Gab is a known cess pool (cis pool?), I funded it because we need more alternatives to the big social networks. I would have funded Tor and 4chan had I the opportunity many years ago. Not too long ago this was a classical liberal position. Today free speech is passé. Guess I'm just old fashioned. I'm happy to see that Gab is switching to Mastodon. I think it will increase the survivability o…

> I would have funded Tor and 4chan had I the opportunity many years ago. > Not too long ago this was a classical liberal position. I'm not sure who or what you're thinking of, but the classical liberal position would be to support something like the Cambridge Union, Cleveland City Club, or some other free speech and debate forum where social norms exist.

The classic liberal position was also to support the rights of Nazis to march down a Jewish neighboorhood.

Regarding free speech, the classic standard is "content neutrality", which means that, regardless of the media, the decision on allowing certain speech cannot be based on what the speech is.

Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#247

Post by lwhalen »

r3bl wrote: post #119
phoe-krk wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now I wonder if mastodon client app developers will start filtering the allowed servers users can put in... This is not the duty of client applications. Banning instances is the duty of the operators of individual instances, and the instance(s) on which you have your account(s) are the instance(s) whose blocking policy affects you. This is a feature. Most sane instances on the Fediverse already ban extremist and al…

> This is not the duty of client applications. It might become their duty. Since Gab's apps are banned, and those apps would be used to access Gab's servers, I could see Apple/Google blocking Mastodon apps as well. App creators might be forced to ban Gab in order to avoid getting banned from the app stores.

It's trivial to use a Mastodon instance via a web browser. Are Firefox, Chrome, et al, going to be banned from app stores as well if they don't implement morality policing?

Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#248

Post by johnny22 »

hedora wrote: post #124
loceng wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay cool. I wonder does that mean Gab is able to use and benefit from any apps/tools created for Mastodon instances - or would it be possible for the owners of those apps/tools themselves to block/prevent certain instances from benefiting? I'd hope that's the case so everyone has the ability to 'vote' for who they are supporting.

Free Software can’t discriminate based on use case, but this was written back before godwin’s law was repealed, so, maybe no one will care that much if freedom zero gets tossed out? sigh https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html A program is free software if the program's users have the four essential freedoms: [1] The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose (freedom 0). ...

sure it can. They have the right and ability to only allow connections to specific instances. You'd still have the right to recompile it without such a list though.

Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#249

Post by vorpalhex »

antepodius wrote: post #215
vorpalhex wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Over time, there's a larger exodus of regular people, leaving only the crazies talking to each other. That's how it's supposed to work. At the end of the day, there's a nonzero amount of people who believe this nonsense, and reaching them is a different set of problems (Education? Therapy?) but getting the vast majority to abandon it is sufficient.

Yeah... I think we need to teach these people the error of their ways. Maybe we should have forcible re-education therapy- to help them get better.

We could put them into re-education camps and have them sing communist songs while they break rocks and renounce their, oh, wait, sorry, wrong regime.

Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#250

Post by amiga-workbench »

rmtech wrote: post #239
amiga-workbench wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a lot of people in my feed from bsd.moe and liberdon.com, I'm on layer8.space at the moment but am considering hosting an instance just for myself. I feel like a burden being on someone else's server, using their bandwidth.

What's the best way to use that kind of thing? Is there an app that's recommended?

I use Tusky on Android and the web UI for everything else.
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