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Gab will become a Mastodon fork

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Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#171

Post by gubbrora »

boapnuaput wrote: post #118
scohesc wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, alt-right is such a subjective term. I've seen people say that wearing a hat with "MAGA" on it is alt-right. I've also seen people say that opinions like "we want an entire race of people locked up and punished" is alt-right as well. While one is definitively magnitudes worse than the other, they're both put under the banner of "alt-right".

MAGA hats boldly proclaim a fascist resurrection myth, though; it's not an inaccurate banner to be put under! I can understand the unhappiness of many folks on the right. It's unpleasant to have one's beliefs placed under scrutiny.

I see two propositions

1. Trump supporters are fascist.

2. Fascists should be sabotaged at every turn.

If we link this up with the fact that the majority of white Americans are Trump supporters, it's hard to escape the conclusion that people are basically calling for persecution of white people.

Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#172

Post by balaksakrionon »

krapp wrote: post #146
balaksakrionon wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think it's unmoderated? I saw this same statement in another comment and pulled up their guidelines: https://gab.com/about/guidelines . Essentially they aim to moderate according to US law

I guess Gab doesn't really support free speech after all...

Not sure exactly what you mean by this

Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#173

Post by rlt »

jtr1 wrote: post #149
rlt wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not saying I disagree, since I haven’t seen any evidence one way or the other, but maybe you or jtr1 could provide some evidence for those who haven’t been following Gab?

A fair request. I did sign up some months ago to see for myself, but you can get a good idea perusing the references on their wikipedia article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gab_(social_network)

I think it’s important to separate the actions and intents of the company from their users. Any platform that has free speech as a core value will tend to attract objectionable people and content. That wiki page is mostly about the horrible things some of their users say and do.

Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#174

Post by repolfx »

Traster wrote: post #116
dcolkitt wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean Tor is used for some pretty bad stuff. Much of the dark net, if not most of the dark net is pretty heinous. Definitely worse than Gab. Do you feel similarly about Tor developers? The way I see it building platforms for detested people is a pretty good canary in the coalmine. If Internet technologies aren't resilient enough to keep the most hated people in the world online, then that's a pretty bad sign that th…

Gab specifically isn't a technology though. This article is specifically about the technology Gab is going to use. So I think the more apt comparison is between Tor and Mastodon. Gab is a website in the same that that a website on the dark net is a website- both of which can and should be judged on their merits.

That seems like a rather fragile distinction to draw.

Tor isn't just a software stack and protocol. It's also a service made up of many hundreds of volunteers who agree to relay traffic, blindly, anywhere, despite (a) knowing what kind of traffic they're protecting and (b) having the ability to blacklist destinations. For instance it's common for Tor exits to ban SMTP or Bittorrent ports.

Bear in mind Tor also supports hidden services, and could also choose to blacklist them if they want - the way the protocol works does allow that, and of course they could change the software stack and the nodes listed in their directory services to make such things easier.

So Gab is a service run by a bunch of people that allow stuff pretty liberally, including bad stuff. So is Tor.

Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#175

Post by repolfx »

wpietri wrote: post #69
vorpalhex wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The darkness is only ever undone by shining a light. By all means, people of reasonable sense should take a moment to look at Gab and realize what counter-factual nonsense it is, because banning it or censoring it will only make it more powerful.

That's a common claim, but I've seen precious little evidence for it. For decades US Nazis and other loons were justifiably obscure. But the rise of the Internet, which enabled all sorts of connection, also enabled our country's worst to more easily connect, network, and recruit. A good book on the topic is Neiwart's "Alt-America", written by a journalist who studied American white supremacists starting in the 1980s.…

So American firms are guilty of foreign interference in elections now, are they? Oh the irony.

Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#176

Post by repolfx »

vikingcaffiene wrote: post #101
manigandham wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who post those things also use the internet, email, chat apps, social media and everything else. At some point you have to accept that people can say and do what they want and only they are responsible for it. Gab is no different than any other social media site in that what you see is a function of who you follow, but gab has no moderation at all so you will see things you don’t like more often. It is wha…

> Gab is no different than any other social media site in that what you see is a function of who you follow > At some point you have to accept that people can say and do what they want and only they are responsible for it. I could not disagree with you more. It is very different and they are known as a haven for some of the vilest viewpoints out there. These fringe viewpoints reach a larger audience and bad things ha…

OK, I'm yelling freedom. I'm also a straight white man, which is a demographic I've seen be demonised pretty regularly on all major social networks and many major newspapers. Plenty of example of such hatred on Twitter; just ask Sarah Jeong.

A part of me feels it'd be nice if people who broadcast their love of cruelty to white men got banned from Twitter and refused employment at the New York Times. But sadly, I know a Twitter ban wouldn't stop Jeong being a misandrist. She picked up those ideas from various places and being booted onto some fringe website wouldn't change her views.

Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#177

Post by krapp »

balaksakrionon wrote: post #172
krapp wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess Gab doesn't really support free speech after all...

Not sure exactly what you mean by this

They censor speech in order to conform to US law, which means they don't support free speech. They cannot as a platform both support free speech and practice censorship.

Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#178

Post by sctb »

asdf21 wrote: post #109
sctb wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop the battle. If you can't comment without attacking other community members then don't. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

What part of my comment attacked anyone? Why is this disagreement a "battle"? I'll stop debating, if you want, but I find your framing to be a bit hyperbolic.

> ...since you have this thing all figured out.

This is a personal attack. Further, you've put words in the other person's mouth and that's a battle thing not a discussion thing. It breaks this guideline:

> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#179

Post by _zskd »

Keverw wrote: post #17

I first heard of Gab when big social media sites were accused of censoring conservatives during the 2016 election. One of the idea of Gab is if you don't like what people say you can block them and don't visit their profile... So for example many social networks banned Alex Jones... With Gab if you don't like what he says, you don't have to follow him... So instead of the site itself trying to censor people, the user…

[flagged]

Re: Gab will become a Mastodon fork

#180

Post by rofrol »

jtr1 wrote: post #135
kgraves wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ..."free speech" in this case is a thin wrapper over white supremacism, Even though this is your opinion I find this statement extremely ridiculous. I don't support or agree with their views, but free speech grants them the right to say it and I will defend that right (which includes everyone). The great thing is that you don't have to hear it, just block them if you don't like it.

Yes, yes, we're all familiar with the Patrick Henry quote. If my statement is so ridiculous, then point out why instead of making bald assertions. I made no argument about the value of free speech. I am arguing that, given the fairly obvious clientele, it is reasonable to assume that principled fealty to free speech was not the driving motivation in Gab's creation. I don't think it's ridiculous to point to the specif…

>it is reasonable to assume that principled fealty to free speech was not the driving motivation in Gab's creation

It is sad that you would like to give up freedom of speech with such weak excuse.

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