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Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

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Re: Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

#71
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is another well known corollary -- if we consume the bulk of fossil fuels this time around, it's unlikely that recovery after a major civilisation collapse would be possible. Naturally the kind of leadership that declines to consider what will happen over the next 20-30 years is even less likely to be concerned about the subsequent 200-300.

> There is another well known corollary -- if we consume the bulk of fossil fuels this time around, it's unlikely that recovery after a major civilisation collapse would be possible. There will still be coal. Coal reserves are unbelievable. Even if we consume that too, we should be fine so as long as there is wood. You can power cars and tanks with wood. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas If we have no trees left…

Hence I said 'bulk of fossil fuels', not 'some, but leave plenty of coal behind'.

In either case, the fossil fuels that are increasingly difficult / expensive to obtain now, in an era with comparatively abundant free energy, would be even more difficult / expensive to obtain in an energy-scarce world.

And yes, I'm aware that things can burn. As a species we've known how to burn things for a very long time, but the industrial revolution really only kicked off when we used coal to power steam engines. Wood - even charcoal - simply doesn't burn hot enough for much beyond food and brass.

> Even dolphins would be able to develop an industrialized civilization.

Well you've lost me there.

Re: Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We... most certainly DO have space travel now.

Only for values of "travel" that consist entirely of beginning in a particular location, and then staying there.

I don't get it... is this one of those "The moon landing was fake" things or are you like not aware that we've traveled to the moon?

Re: Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

#73
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is another well known corollary -- if we consume the bulk of fossil fuels this time around, it's unlikely that recovery after a major civilisation collapse would be possible. Naturally the kind of leadership that declines to consider what will happen over the next 20-30 years is even less likely to be concerned about the subsequent 200-300.

Why? My instinct is the opposite: if 6 billion people die, we drop two orders of magnitude in biodiversity, most biomes die more or less completely (save a couple pioneer species) then we have 100 million people still living in nooks and crannies. Worst case in air conditioned spaces near nuclear plants. And those people re-engineer society in a more stable way. That’s not a worst case or best case scenario, it’s a m…

> And those people re-engineer society in a more stable way.

I am envious of your optimism, but I see no evidence to suggest that small communities of highly stressed and resource-starved humans can produce anything better than a much larger number of relatively non-stressed humans with easy access to abundant resources.

I wasn't proposing any particular scenario that would cause a civilisational collapse, merely that a large supply of free, easy to obtain, high-density energy may be a prerequisite for any transition to an industrial age (and naturally all that may follow). I accept we only have one data point to hand, but it doesn't contradict this proposition.

Re: Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

#74
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still counts as space travel.

In much the same way jumping counts as air travel.

I thought being in a plane in the air counted as air travel and being in a spacecraft in space counted as a space travel?

Re: Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_Against_the_Chtorr specifically the ontology described during a "pink storm" in A Day for Damnation. A fungal-like substance (the pink fuzz, which looks suspiciously like cottonwood storms south of Seattle) is the catalyst for the rest of the ecology.

I LOVED those books in high school! After rereading them a year or so ago, they are pretty indebted to Heinlein and Starship Troopers, but still entertaining. He also goes into preachy libertarian sometimes. This was the guy who wrote the "Trouble with Tribbles" Star Trek episode, which explored some of the same ideas. Also, be prepared that the series was never completed (IIRC he had a son with autism that took time…

Also wrote The Flying Sorcerers with Larry Niven, relevant to the top comment, being about kickstarting an alien industrial revolution.

Re: Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In much the same way jumping counts as air travel.

I thought being in a plane in the air counted as air travel and being in a spacecraft in space counted as a space travel?

While we are capable of (human) space travel, it's currently only really for science. On the other hand, people travel by air all the time for practical reasons.

Re: Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

#77
post #41

This is tangentially related: I've had a pet theory for a while (which may not be original, idk) that a possible explanation for the Fermi Paradox Great Filter is literally the existence of huge amounts of Fossil Fuels. It took millions of years of dead biological life on our planet to build up the supplies we have, and the big ol' meteor that hit us some 60 million years ago helped not only kill off a bunch of that…

My pet theory to Fermi Paradox is much more bleak: This is a very very young universe and we are probably the first and the oldest advanced civilization.

We might have 'aliens' and ET beyond our visible universe but they are further down the timeline. Maybe, like you said, cellular life exists else where but they need billions more years to reach our stage.

Re: Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

#78
post #41

This is tangentially related: I've had a pet theory for a while (which may not be original, idk) that a possible explanation for the Fermi Paradox Great Filter is literally the existence of huge amounts of Fossil Fuels. It took millions of years of dead biological life on our planet to build up the supplies we have, and the big ol' meteor that hit us some 60 million years ago helped not only kill off a bunch of that…

Check out this sobering talk by Dr Sid Smith where he says the same thing wrt oils and fossil fuels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPB2u8EzL8

Re: Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only for values of "travel" that consist entirely of beginning in a particular location, and then staying there.

I don't get it... is this one of those "The moon landing was fake" things or are you like not aware that we've traveled to the moon?

For any meaningful sense of "space travel", the moon and the earth are not in different locations.

Nor are we able to stay on the moon, though that is a weaker point.

Re: Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

#80
post #28
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I acknowledge that this comment is probably low quality, but if you have ever taken magic mushrooms you realise that fungi are definitely linked to the emergence of consciousness.

This is like claiming that dripping drops of water on a circuit board, and observing that the electronics misbehave, somehow links it to the emergence of circuit design.

It surely is in some ways. But in other ways, it sure seems like they have some sort of a special "relationship" (for utter lack of a better term) with consciousness.

Out of curiosity, have you tried them before?

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