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The Boring Company will develop an underground “people mover” for Las Vegas

citylab.com

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Re: The Boring Company will develop an underground “people mover” for Las Vegas

#231

Post by wuliwong »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #192
ridgeguy wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4. Removal of single-point extinction event if/when another dinosaur killer asteroid strikes Earth.

A dinosaur-killer sized asteroid strike would still leave earth far, far more habitable than mars is (there would at least be air and water) as would essentially any other conceivable natural or cosmic disaster.

I hadn't really thought about that before. But I still think the sudden, cataclysm still could render humans extinct on Earth even if Mars is a more difficult climate. Mars dwellers would have had a great deal of time to prepare for that environment. On Earth, it would be suddenly thrust upon them. This is also assuming that the Mars colony was at a point where it could exist without supplies from Earth.

Re: The Boring Company will develop an underground “people mover” for Las Vegas

#232

Post by kelnos »

avar wrote: post #83
perennate wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you say that? Even accounting for the cost, I think many would still argue that it was worth it, replacing a highway system that divided the city with a walkable network of parks that effectively connects different neighborhoods like financial district north end, along with a new series of (underground) highways that provided improved traffic flow. Before and after photos: https://imgur.com/JbgPur6 If the cost…

That doesn't look worth it at all. It cost $22 billion and the result is a narrow 1-block park through the center of Boston. Most of those buildings next to what used to be the highway are at most 10-20 stories. A 60 story skyscraper was finished in Boston this year for $700[1]. So to a first approximation they could have had a full 2-3 blocks of parks around 15 new such skyscrapers to get the same building space aft…

It was absolutely worth it. I've visited that area back in the early-/mid-00s when the highways and construction were still there, and recently (was just there a few weeks ago, actually) after completion. It's night and day, and the new space is a huge improvement over the old.

Comparing skyscraper build costs to tunnel build costs is meaningless.

Noise isn't the only factor. The bigger issues are division of the city, and the urban blight that is common under and around elevated highways.

The cost overruns were due to the usual things: mistakes that were expensive to correct, graft, and corruption. If you can solve those things, great. But I don't think the presence of those things should invalidate the need for truly valuable projects that make cities much more livable.

Re: The Boring Company will develop an underground “people mover” for Las Vegas

#233

Post by kelnos »

perennate wrote: post #28
duxup wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If the cost issue were solved I feel like that's a very very heavy lift. Lots of things would be great "If the cost issue were solved".

Ah okay, that makes sense (but parent comment was talking about Boring Company / other new technology potentially reducing cost in the future; though I'm also skeptical).

I think the issue isn't that the techniques used for tunnel boring are so expensive, but that other issues (mismanagement, corruption) end up costing a lot. I don't think The Boring Company is going to solve those problems. Certainly reducing costs through new technology is a good thing, but it's not the whole picture by a long shot.

Re: The Boring Company will develop an underground “people mover” for Las Vegas

#234

Post by djsumdog »

hoorayimhelping wrote: post #23
rayiner wrote: post #6

So what’s this fascination with tunnels? In Chicago, there are overhead elevated train tracks, and they work just fine. They seem a lot cheaper to build and maintain than tunnels. You can even build them over existing avenues. Why don’t we have more of that?

Have you ever lived near an elevated train? They're not pleasant areas, especially compared to subway stations. The area under the tracks aren't very usable, except as a roadway and parking lots. They're loud as hell, people on the trains can see into your home, the spaces around the elevated tracks are great places for people to do drugs and have crusty hobo sex. These criticisms apply equally to elevated roads. Mos…

I love Chicago's elevated trains. There are plenty of people who live around them. I grew up next to a freight train track out in the boonies. You get use to it.

They are way cheaper if you can build them. Look at how long it's taking Seattle to build ST3 (although it's going to be amazing when the Redmond corridor opens; I agree).

America needs good transport now, in many more cities. Musk's tunnel ideas are just really impractical and will cost the tax payers more than the benefits of other types of standard/existing rail.

Re: The Boring Company will develop an underground “people mover” for Las Vegas

#235

Post by djsumdog »

swampthinker wrote: post #62
rayiner wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The area under elevated lines is unusable only if you make it that way. Tokyo is great at using space below bridges and elevated lines: https://images.app.goo.gl/zpq5T3m5FPSr4eoN6 . As to weather, Chicago has tons of it and manages fine: https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/1/31/18204627/chicago-cold-w...

The JR and Tokyo metro trains are significantly quieter and better maintained.

Yes and Chicago's stock is super old. The Orange Line is newer and is also much quieter and smoother. New rail in America, elevated, can be pretty quite and enjoyable. I like living near trains personally. It's relaxing to watch them go by in the evening, while sipping on some whiskey or wine.

Re: The Boring Company will develop an underground “people mover” for Las Vegas

#236

Post by sambull »

spraak wrote: post #95
calgoo wrote: post #67

I love watching all of Musk's projects, as every single one can be connected to Mars colonization. 1. Electric cars for transport, Check. 2. Solar panels and batteries for power generation and storage, check. 3. Tunnel digging equipment for making underground bases and transport, check. 4. Satellite communications for an entire planet, check. 5. Then finally, the actual rockets to get us there. Hopefully he will cont…

The goal of Mars to me is silly. Mars is already worse off in terms of climate than Earth. Why not work to improve what we have? The only appeal I see is "uncharted territory" / wild west

Personal opinion, Elon believes that the earth is going to be uninhabitable by us in fairly short order. Mars is a fantasy to develop life support tech for earth, knowing full well saving ourselves would have been out of the question.

Re: The Boring Company will develop an underground “people mover” for Las Vegas

#237

Post by DeonPenny »

calgoo wrote: post #67

I love watching all of Musk's projects, as every single one can be connected to Mars colonization. 1. Electric cars for transport, Check. 2. Solar panels and batteries for power generation and storage, check. 3. Tunnel digging equipment for making underground bases and transport, check. 4. Satellite communications for an entire planet, check. 5. Then finally, the actual rockets to get us there. Hopefully he will cont…

The more it happens the more I hope he succeeds despite all the push back. Men who have goals this grand deserve a shot at finishing them.

Re: The Boring Company will develop an underground “people mover” for Las Vegas

#238

Post by quickthrower2 »

_Microft wrote: post #124
spraak wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal of Mars to me is silly. Mars is already worse off in terms of climate than Earth. Why not work to improve what we have? The only appeal I see is "uncharted territory" / wild west

It's not a replacement, it's a backup. You don't do these after a headcrash either but start doing them as soon as possible.

I came here to say this. If Earth gets struck by a large object we might be glad (i) we have another planet and (ii) we have a way to survive on an otherwise uninhabitable planet that Earth has become.

In fact living on mars might be the perfect preparation for what Earth might be like after climate change in a few hundred years time.

The technology generated by colonising Mars might help with climate change.

Re: The Boring Company will develop an underground “people mover” for Las Vegas

#239

Post by DeonPenny »

spraak wrote: post #95
calgoo wrote: post #67

I love watching all of Musk's projects, as every single one can be connected to Mars colonization. 1. Electric cars for transport, Check. 2. Solar panels and batteries for power generation and storage, check. 3. Tunnel digging equipment for making underground bases and transport, check. 4. Satellite communications for an entire planet, check. 5. Then finally, the actual rockets to get us there. Hopefully he will cont…

The goal of Mars to me is silly. Mars is already worse off in terms of climate than Earth. Why not work to improve what we have? The only appeal I see is "uncharted territory" / wild west

Redundancy. Plus the earth as it's is now is very hard to change and improve.

Re: The Boring Company will develop an underground “people mover” for Las Vegas

#240

Post by djsumdog »

3JPLW wrote: post #63
rayiner wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The area under elevated lines is unusable only if you make it that way. Tokyo is great at using space below bridges and elevated lines: https://images.app.goo.gl/zpq5T3m5FPSr4eoN6 . As to weather, Chicago has tons of it and manages fine: https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/1/31/18204627/chicago-cold-w...

Yeah, we just set our tracks on fire. It's fine. (Well, that's the ground-level light rail — Metra — that does that)

To be fair, most European commuter rail does the same thing. They just use electric heaters, so it doesn't look like their tracks are on fire. Chicago was built up with a big natural gas infrastructure for some reason (like every home seems to have gas heat/dryers) so I guess it made sense to put gas heaters on the rails.
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