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Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

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Re: Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was also able to anti-tame them quite quickly as well.

I have a feeling an alien human researcher would say the same about us if they had witnessed a Walmart on a black Friday.

What takes foxes a number of generations to change, corporations can change in people just by altering incentives. This is the double edged sword of intelligence.

Re: Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

#32
post #28
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I acknowledge that this comment is probably low quality, but if you have ever taken magic mushrooms you realise that fungi are definitely linked to the emergence of consciousness.

This is like claiming that dripping drops of water on a circuit board, and observing that the electronics misbehave, somehow links it to the emergence of circuit design.

Yes.

If you are a circuit board, getting some water on yourself would be one way to (potentially destructively) learn about what your design actually is.

Or fault injection or fuzzing, same idea. By making errors happen, you find out about possible errors that even can happen, and that tells you something about the overall design. Maybe the design cannot be fully determined this way, but a portion can be learned, maybe a portion unreachable by any other means (MRI, neural probes, etc) so research into the mind and consciousness by use of psychedelics does make sense.

Re: Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

#33
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is indeed. I'd also recommend giving this podcast [1] with Paul Stamets a listen. He's a fairly well-known mycologist who has some very interesting things to say on the topic. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPqWstVnRjQ

Stamets is an interesting guy who should never be considered an authority on anything other than the psychedelic experience. He's fun to listen to, but he's a total crank when it comes to actual reproducible science.

I wish people downvoting this comment would contribute to the discussion. Why not contribute?

Re: Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

#35

Sci-fi plot: Fungi are actually alien artificial life. They were designed as a huge family of microorganisms designed to recreate an alien biosphere. However, when they landed on earth, they encountered something which changed these plans.

In this vein, Fungi (the third kingdom) evolving to the dominant form of life is the premise in ‘Of Man and Manta’.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Of_Man_and_Manta

Re: Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

#36
post #2

The role of fungi in earth's ecology is endlessly fascinating. In addition to laying the groundwork for complex life, there's evidence they helped in the emergence of intelligence and consciousness[1] as well as helping save honeybees[2] [1] https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/pdf/10.1098/rsif.2014... (pdf link) [2] https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/10/09/446928755/co...

Can you explain more how your first link relates to the emergence of consciousness? I skimmed the linked paper and it didn't seem to be drawing any links with human history or evolution. I find both psychedelic drugs and the "hard problem" of consciousness to be deeply interesting, but I've never been persuaded by the Terence McKenna-type arguments that try to connect the two.

Re: Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

#37
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stamets is an interesting guy who should never be considered an authority on anything other than the psychedelic experience. He's fun to listen to, but he's a total crank when it comes to actual reproducible science.

I wish people downvoting this comment would contribute to the discussion. Why not contribute?

I think in general Paul Stamets is not a scientist per se in the form of writing papers and doing academic research but it is hard to deny his influence as a popularizer of mycology. He also writes about the study and growing of mushrooms and these include the edible not just the psychoactive kind. I know he has done some bioremediation demonstrations but perhaps according to the poster these weren't performed with enough scientific rigor. Not everyone who studies and shares information about something does so from the confines of the traditional academic background and not everyone needs a PhD to be an expert about something so perhaps that is why some people are down voting.

Re: Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

#38
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is indeed. I'd also recommend giving this podcast [1] with Paul Stamets a listen. He's a fairly well-known mycologist who has some very interesting things to say on the topic. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPqWstVnRjQ

Stamets is an interesting guy who should never be considered an authority on anything other than the psychedelic experience. He's fun to listen to, but he's a total crank when it comes to actual reproducible science.

He is certainly an authority on mycology. He has found numerous species, identified mushrooms with antiviral activity for the DoD, created a mushroom-based bee-pest treatment, biological system for killing termites without poison, etc.

Re: Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also Terence Mckenna's stoned ape theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_McKenna#%22Stoned_ape%... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnEKoFrx1rI Yes it's "a little" out there, but I think it's actually quite plausible.

It's certainly interesting, but what is the explanation for how consuming Psilocybe mushrooms could have effects across generations ? Is it that an organism having had that experience might have altered behavior leading to advantages in natural/sexual selection? Or that psilocybin literally alters something physiological or [epi]genetic? Basically how could psilocybin cause a permanent (since it has persisted long af…

I think the theory kind of relies on the notion that there are certain 'inductive leaps' which are hard for the natural mind to make independently, but this knowledge can then be socially transmitted after induction with relative ease. Ex. "Rubbing sticks together a certain way makes fire" is fairly hard to discover with no a priori knowledge, but if demonstrated the meme propagates quickly.

Whether psychedelics are actually effective at producing 'inductive leaps' is something that is under-researched as a result of legal status. There were some very interesting study results around this from the 60s, but more research is needed (many used subjective measures). How can inductive leaps be quantified? Perhaps some sort of expert-peer-grading?

Re: Complex life may only exist because of millions of years of groundwork by fungi

#40
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is indeed. I'd also recommend giving this podcast [1] with Paul Stamets a listen. He's a fairly well-known mycologist who has some very interesting things to say on the topic. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPqWstVnRjQ

Stamets is an interesting guy who should never be considered an authority on anything other than the psychedelic experience. He's fun to listen to, but he's a total crank when it comes to actual reproducible science.

Interesting. I've recently gotten in to Paul Stamets and he certainly seems to be involved in a lot of research. He's also literally written the book (multiples, really) on mushroom cultivation. He started his career legally studying psychedelics through a DEA license at his university, but has since contributed to quite a bit of original research according to his own claims. He has said for example that he (in part or in whole, I can't recall) developed the method the DEA still uses for positively identifying psilocybin. It doesn't seem accurate to call him a crank. Indeed when I heard him discuss the "stoned ape theory" he said it makes sense to him, but that it is not provable in his opinion. Doesn't sound like a crank to me.
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