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Advertising as a source of dissatisfaction: cross-national evidence

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Re: Advertising as a source of dissatisfaction: cross-national evidence

#471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not impossible at all. Math tells me that growth capitalism can't be maintained forever. The only question is when, and under what conditions, it will end.

Why can't it be maintained forever? If a house can be valued at $4,000 one year, and $40,000 a few decades later, and $200,0000 a few decades later, what's the reason that "value" can't keep increasing eternally? There's obviously no real substance to "the value" of a thing, only people's interpretation and desire for it, and there's plenty of "value" where there is no physical substance at all, like exclusivity, or…

Because any exponential growth rate will eventually reach the physical limitations (i.e. carrying capacity) of the underlying processes that produce goods, whether that is fish or molybdenum. Eventually, even if we can keep scaling exponential growth by spreading to other planets and stars, the growth is fundamentally limited by the speed of light, which means expansion in space is limited by O(n^3), and oh yes, even O(1.00000tiny^n) will eventually grow faster than O(n^3).

https://bollocks2012.wordpress.com/2013/04/22/the-greatest-s...

Re: Advertising as a source of dissatisfaction: cross-national evidence

#472
post #435
post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people love to parrot this libertarian talking without really thinking it through. Generally young, logic-minded people that end up following some kind of Randianism and cannot fathom the possibility that people are, by and large, basically bastards to each other. The truth is the government is a social contract designed to actually protect people from violence. Yeah, it taxes people. But it also protects them…

I agree that libertarianism is ignorant at best. But your example of the French Revolution detracts from your argument, because that occurred in the context of a strong monarchist government, not a libertarian dystopia.

I do think the period directly following the revolution in which the rival factions fought over the country is a context of a libertarian dystopia, if only a glimpse of one.

Re: Advertising as a source of dissatisfaction: cross-national evidence

#473
post #355
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care how much education they have, the minds who are focused on developing ways to capture people's increasingly fractured attention are disqualified from being considered the top minds of our generation.

I think that's a nearsighted appraisal of people in these industries. Advertising is effective and so is the myth that money gives you actualization, to me it makes perfect sense that smart kids are going into a high paying industry while missing it's harmful effect.

If they were really smart they would see the bigger picture.

Re: Advertising as a source of dissatisfaction: cross-national evidence

#474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans learned about new things for thousands of years without the modern of advertisements. I have no fear that the news of useful and interesting products will spread just fine even if advertising is massively reduced.

Let me rephrase your response. > Humans learned about new things for thousands of years without the modern of technology. > I have no fear that the news of useful and interesting information will spread just fine even if technology is massively reduced. Sure, we don't need ads the same way we don't need computers. I however like being able to learn about things outside my physical filter bubble and immensely enjoy my…

You would have been able to find those same tools and electronics, you may have had to just spend a few minutes browsing some sort of catalog. The lack of advertisements wouldn't cause any serious difficulties.

Re: Advertising as a source of dissatisfaction: cross-national evidence

#475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me rephrase your response. > Humans learned about new things for thousands of years without the modern of technology. > I have no fear that the news of useful and interesting information will spread just fine even if technology is massively reduced. Sure, we don't need ads the same way we don't need computers. I however like being able to learn about things outside my physical filter bubble and immensely enjoy my…

You would have been able to find those same tools and electronics, you may have had to just spend a few minutes browsing some sort of catalog. The lack of advertisements wouldn't cause any serious difficulties.

>You would have been able to find those same tools and electronics, you may have had to just spend a few minutes browsing some sort of catalog.

You may have read the gp's comment too quickly. The context was used tools and electronics from Craigslist ads.

The "used" would be pre-owned and less expensive, and "Craigslist" presumably means buying from a local seller.

Catalogs for tools and electronics are typically new items that are national in scope instead of local.

The Craigslist advertisements made him _aware_ of a local seller selling a used tool that he wanted.

What would be the non-advertising way to accomplish that same goal? Possibly driving to flea markets or swap meets every week? But the sellers with their wares on display are themselves a form of advertising. It's also an incredibly inefficient use of time to repeatedly drive to a location and walk away empty-handed compared to seeing a relevant Craigslist ad.

>some sort of catalog. The lack of advertisements wouldn't cause any serious difficulties.

Fyi in case you were unaware... Many retailers' catalogs are created with ad sponsorships to offset the cost of printing, mailing, etc.

Re: Advertising as a source of dissatisfaction: cross-national evidence

#476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hey aren't healthy, but they don't pretend to be. They say very clearly what they contain and they're marketed as a treat Soda manufacturers include this information because they are required to by law. It is in their interests to hide this information from you. Lobbysists for junk food manufacturers are always hard at work fighting against these kinds of regulations, because you knowing what is in their product is…

> I'll concede that most pop music is lowest-common denominator crap manufactured and marketed to as as wide a demographic as possible for no other reason than profit Bah I think you're showing yourself to be a cynic and a snob with statements like this. You don't like that music so it's 'lowest-common denominator crap' and you can't see any purpose for it apart from profit, no matter if other people chose to enjoy i…

I'm not being a cynic and a snob. There are studies showing how much simpler, more generified and more homogenous and less dynamic pop music has become over the last few decades.

It's an actual thing that has happened.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-mus...

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2012/jul/27/pop-music-soun...

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

You didn't address the point of my post though, the pop music analogy was just an example you used that I felt didn't work very well because music, even pop music, doesn't harm your health or exploit addictions in the ways many advertised products do.

Re: Advertising as a source of dissatisfaction: cross-national evidence

#477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the reason they keep doing-- It works. Stop rewarding it and they'll stop. I actually think a large number of societal issues today are stemming from people's inability to think rationally for themselves. Things like fake news, being vulnerable to advertising, taking bad deals like minimum wage etc. If someone were able to think rationally and into the future to figure out, "4 years from now if I choose this […

> Stop rewarding it and they'll stop. Here's the thing... I'd taken quite a lot of advertising courses during my education, and among the many truly scary things that I learned in them, one stood out above all others: Knowing how advertising manipulates you, and even noticing it in the moment that it's happening, in no way makes it less effective. People who claim that they aren't affected by advertising are incorrec…

Perhaps you cannot resist the advertisements you see, but you can take steps to limit how much advertising you are exposed to. Get Netflix, get an ad blocker.

Re: Advertising as a source of dissatisfaction: cross-national evidence

#478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stop rewarding it and they'll stop. Here's the thing... I'd taken quite a lot of advertising courses during my education, and among the many truly scary things that I learned in them, one stood out above all others: Knowing how advertising manipulates you, and even noticing it in the moment that it's happening, in no way makes it less effective. People who claim that they aren't affected by advertising are incorrec…

> Knowing how advertising manipulates you, and even noticing it in the moment that it's happening, in no way makes it less effective. People who claim that they aren't affected by advertising are incorrect. Is there any evidence for such a claim? I've heard people say this again and again, but I can't see how this is true based on myself. Sure, I've been guided to a product based on advertisement once in my life, but…

You misunderstand advertisement. It is not designed to get you to buy stuff. It is designed to get you familiarized with the product and to shape your view of reality. Did you think people thought smoking was cool back in the days just because? Do you think wedding rings are supposed to be expensive?

Re: Advertising as a source of dissatisfaction: cross-national evidence

#479
post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would have been able to find those same tools and electronics, you may have had to just spend a few minutes browsing some sort of catalog. The lack of advertisements wouldn't cause any serious difficulties.

>You would have been able to find those same tools and electronics, you may have had to just spend a few minutes browsing some sort of catalog. You may have read the gp's comment too quickly. The context was used tools and electronics from Craigslist ads . The "used" would be pre-owned and less expensive , and "Craigslist" presumably means buying from a local seller. Catalogs for tools and electronics are typically n…

In the new world, you would pay a small fee for a quality catalog.

I guarantee you some sort of comparable solution would arise for used goods. Once again, perhaps it is as simple as something like a craigslist requiring a small fee. It could be subscription based, a fee paid by the seller (to place the listing or when the sale is completed), and so on. Aren't there apps already doing this?

And of course, there are likely many other good solutions that I'm not thinking of.

Lastly, we don't have to ban _all_ advertising. We could significantly reduce it and gain many of the same benefits.

Re: Advertising as a source of dissatisfaction: cross-national evidence

#480
post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those people can also do A/B tests, and compare various methods of advertising. And they get their money's worth on customers (e.g. a promotional vlog by an a-lister can suddenly push millions worth of product). So probably not.

a/b tests only work for outcome based advertising. A lot (if not more) of the old world advertising isn't outcome based. It's more about make consumers hear your brand over and over and be associated with things that you think of them automatically.

The descriptions I've read about a/b testing make it sound a lot like null hypothesis significance testing, which has a well earned reputation in the social sciences. And you have to buy the things that you're testing, either from a vendor, or by employing people who assemble the stuff.
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