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Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

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Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#151

Post by x38iq84n »

sgift wrote: post #80
munmaek wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the US and everything to do with an asymmetric relationship. The police have immense power, you do not. What do you have to gain from interacting with the police? Now, compare this to what you stand to lose by interacting with the police. The rule is simple: don't interact with the police. They are not your friends, anything you do or say can and will be used against you at a wh…

> What do you have to gain from interacting with the police? Now, compare this to what you stand to lose by interacting with the police. The job of the police is to help me. To do that effectively they have to sometimes talk to me. It is therefore in my interest to talk to them.

> The job of the police is to help me

You are in for a big, big surprise. Hope your naivety does not get you in too much trouble.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#152

Post by StanislavPetrov »

Waterluvian wrote: post #131
mattlondon wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I find weird about all of this is that people actually answer their door to unexpected & unknown visitors?! Do you also answer your phone to unexpected & unknown callers?! My rule of thumb built up over years of annoyance & bullshit is: if you don't know who it is, or aren't expecting anything, ignore it; 99.9% of the time someone unexpected/unknown on the phone or at your door are just going to be wasting your…

This fascinates me so much because the idea that there's anything at all risky about opening your door to a stranger is the thing that's completely alien to my world.

I never answer my door to unexpected visitors and it has nothing to do with risks.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#153

Post by __HYde »

sgift wrote: post #80
munmaek wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the US and everything to do with an asymmetric relationship. The police have immense power, you do not. What do you have to gain from interacting with the police? Now, compare this to what you stand to lose by interacting with the police. The rule is simple: don't interact with the police. They are not your friends, anything you do or say can and will be used against you at a wh…

> What do you have to gain from interacting with the police? Now, compare this to what you stand to lose by interacting with the police. The job of the police is to help me. To do that effectively they have to sometimes talk to me. It is therefore in my interest to talk to them.

The job of the police is to enforce laws. Whether this helps you is ancillary.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#154

Post by StanislavPetrov »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #102
mattlondon wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I find weird about all of this is that people actually answer their door to unexpected & unknown visitors?! Do you also answer your phone to unexpected & unknown callers?! My rule of thumb built up over years of annoyance & bullshit is: if you don't know who it is, or aren't expecting anything, ignore it; 99.9% of the time someone unexpected/unknown on the phone or at your door are just going to be wasting your…

When the police come to your door, you're going to answer. Agree with the program or not, this is not spam.

Sorry that's wrong. If someone knocks on my door unexpectedly I don't even bother to look outside to see who it is - I'm not answering.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#155

Post by laumars »

DanBC wrote: post #146
laumars wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are you saying Literally all I'm saying is suicide is a separate topic because it's a mental illness rather than an action someone chooses or is lead into. > what do you think should happen if someone is suicidal? I don't really want to get into an off topic discussion about mental health which is why I didn't go into more detail in my previous post. However if you want more information about mental health the…

I agree with what you're saying. This point, however, is wrong. I don't think it being wrong changes your argument at all. > suicide is a [...] a mental illness rather than an action someone chooses or is lead into. Lots of people who die by suicide do not have a history of mental illness and would not meet a definition of "mentally ill" at the time of their death. They die because of rapid onset despair rather than…

It's a misconception that mental illness means someone who isn't capacitous. Granted that can be the case at the extreme end of the spectrum but the term is a lot broader than that.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#156

Post by 52-6F-62 »

xvf22 wrote: post #128
mcv wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, I would hope that Canadian police is a bit more trustworthy and trusted than US police. I certainly wouldn't want that kind of visit from police officers whose primary concern is to find a reason to arrest or shoot you, but if police is honestly trying to help and prevent problems, it's an entirely different matter. Police culture, policy and accountability matters a lot in a case like this.

Police in Canada may be better but there are still a ton of problems especially with indigenous populations.[1][2] Ontario has the SIU for police oversight but the new provincial government is meddling with it[3]. [1] https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/06/19/canada-police-fail-indig... [2] https://aptnnews.ca/2019/05/13/were-you-turned-on-by-this-at... [3] http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/808540/Constitutional+Adminis...

I can say, at least from what I’ve heard, the OPP is not happy about the meddling at all. They have had enough bad press the past ten years they’ve been trying to fix that.

My brothers an OPP constable in rural Ontario (and incidentally married to a teacher). They were not happy with the messing about, especially the Taverner case. From what I understand Blair was a highly respected officer as well and is generally considered to have fallen on his sword to prevent the insertion of a corrupt top official.

Anyway I forgot about the SIU stuff. I’m going to have to pick his brain about it.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#157

Post by whatshisface »

Waterluvian wrote: post #131
mattlondon wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I find weird about all of this is that people actually answer their door to unexpected & unknown visitors?! Do you also answer your phone to unexpected & unknown callers?! My rule of thumb built up over years of annoyance & bullshit is: if you don't know who it is, or aren't expecting anything, ignore it; 99.9% of the time someone unexpected/unknown on the phone or at your door are just going to be wasting your…

This fascinates me so much because the idea that there's anything at all risky about opening your door to a stranger is the thing that's completely alien to my world.

They might be trying to sell you something. How often would an unannounced visitor be unwanted vs. wanted?

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#158

Post by StanislavPetrov »

sgift wrote: post #80
munmaek wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the US and everything to do with an asymmetric relationship. The police have immense power, you do not. What do you have to gain from interacting with the police? Now, compare this to what you stand to lose by interacting with the police. The rule is simple: don't interact with the police. They are not your friends, anything you do or say can and will be used against you at a wh…

> What do you have to gain from interacting with the police? Now, compare this to what you stand to lose by interacting with the police. The job of the police is to help me. To do that effectively they have to sometimes talk to me. It is therefore in my interest to talk to them.

You are woefully misinformed - the job of the police is not to help you. The job of the police is to maintain civil order and enforce (often very poorly written) laws like this one.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#159

Post by 3pt14159 »

heavenlyblue wrote: post #73
3pt14159 wrote: post #51

People here are overreacting. First, Vice is an unreliable news organization with seriously substantiated claims that one of its founders has backed white supremacists, including Proud Boys. It's also been involved in international drug smuggling. And inflating its advertising numbers by an order of magnitude. Second, the police in Canada are some of the finest in the world. There are problem spots that I've seen wit…

>> It's also been involved in international drug smuggling. This person is probably mentioning the arrest of a Vice music site editor on cocaine smuggling (as you can see, parent's take on this is very different from reality): https://www.spin.com/2019/02/vice-editor-slava-p-arrested-co... Makes me question everything else you are commenting here on.

I can't open your link due to a stupid firewall restriction whilst I'm travelling, but I was talking about this article. If it has been debunked since, then I apologize for the error. I stand by my overall point. The Canadian Government is far, far more careful than one of ten thousand companies tracking people around the world, including Canada.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/how-an-editor-alleg...

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#160

Post by wongarsu »

EliRivers wrote: post #83

The principle here - that good community policing has a strong preventative, social aspect - is nothing new. It has long been expected that good community police officers know people in their area who might be at risk of going down a criminal path and use their judgement to intervene appropriately. So is the objection (of some) that this principle is wrong, or is the objection that this aspect of what is generally co…

On the small scale it is good policing. But on the large scale it is also disturbingly similar to what East Germany (and other socialist/Stalinist states) did: you were constantly monitored, and the police who genuinely were your friend might visit individuals at risk (of being uncommunist) and help them back on the right path.

Something is systematisied, but it's not entirely clear what. And even if it's good now that doesn't stop it from being corrupted by someone in power later.

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