Isn't this the real reason the US went into Afghanistan?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-afghanistan-minerals/...
China ready to hit back at U.S. with rare earths
41–50 of 82 posts
Re: China ready to hit back at U.S. with rare earths
#42Previous administrations tried to appease the CCP, hoping to cajole them into at least a moderate stance on human rights, etc. But the CCP is not a live and let live sort of organization, and merely took advantage of these policies to further their interests and wage a one sided trade war.
>Previous administrations tried to appease the CCP
Somehow this reminds me of the line in the movie Darkest Hour [1] ;
When will the lesson be learned? When will the lesson be learned? How many more dictators must be wooed, appeased - good God, given immense privileges - before we learn? You cannot reason with a tiger when your head is in its mouth.
Re: China ready to hit back at U.S. with rare earths
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unfortunately the global machine only works well if the parts are working together for the greater good in the first place, which is not a given.
> if the parts are working together for the greater good No, it also works surprisingly well if everyone is acting rationally but purely optimizing for self-interest.
The question is if it works well in all relevant aspects and not only some. I believe a fair investigation would reveal a little of both well and bad to everyone except the most die-hard ideological laissez-faire purist.
One such relevant negative aspect of all-out competition is that trade wars between superpowers backed by massive nuclear arsenals poses not only a risk to the world economy but also to our survival as a civilization if not species.
Working together for the common good seems indeed preferable in this case.
Re: China ready to hit back at U.S. with rare earths
#44Firstly, I don't know what they expect to achieve with these threats. I think the US has shown so far that it's not going to easily bend to such threats, this was a bad move on their part. Maybe they knew this, hence using the media to broadcast this message. Still, this very much sounds like escalation talk rather than de-escalation. Secondly, these "rare earths" aren't actually rare, most mines were simply shut dow…
You are doing it the wrong way.
This administration had gone great length to convince China what it wants is not just trade, it wants a surrender from China to address its own confidence crisis with itself. And of course, the bill will be 100% on China.
So it is not a game with economical gain any more, it is the game of great powers, and China needs to have its own Trump card and demonstrate the willingness to deploy it. It doesn't suit their best interests, but as comparing to lose the 'war', it is better to try it than not. Because who knows?
If the current global order isn't something that is maintainable, what is clear to me, China/US won't be the worst off if it no longer exists, because they are so big, the new order or orders will have them play the critical part of it anyway, so they are not afraid to burn it to ground themselves.
Re: China ready to hit back at U.S. with rare earths
#45I'm surprised why people still talk rare earth, and not tantalum.
Tantalum is the real jugular of electronics industry.
You should also note that out of all companies, US went to pressure Panasonic — world's biggest maker of advanced capacitors.
That alone hit Huawei way way more than ban on cellphone socs and mosfets.
You can run away from SoC ban on biggest supplier, mosfet ban by switching to domestic makers, but high spec capacitors... they are a real kill switch.
Re: China ready to hit back at U.S. with rare earths
#46Firstly, I don't know what they expect to achieve with these threats. I think the US has shown so far that it's not going to easily bend to such threats, this was a bad move on their part. Maybe they knew this, hence using the media to broadcast this message. Still, this very much sounds like escalation talk rather than de-escalation. Secondly, these "rare earths" aren't actually rare, most mines were simply shut dow…
How is Sheffield steel an example of rare earth metals?
Re: China ready to hit back at U.S. with rare earths
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not just about threatening the US, it's about bolstering the Chinese moral across the nation, building a belief that China is a resilient underdog and the world is against it but it will fight back.
that's exactly what the US propaganda also claims
>China is a resilient underdog and the world is against it but it will fight back
U.S. propaganda is the mostly the opposite of this. We’re supposed to be an invincible freedom juggernaut who the whole world loves, including the poor, oppressed people of Iran/North Korea who generally love America [actually true in Iran, from what Persian friends tell me] and just want some drone-delivered democracy.
The reality is of course somewhat different.
Re: China ready to hit back at U.S. with rare earths
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not just about threatening the US, it's about bolstering the Chinese moral across the nation, building a belief that China is a resilient underdog and the world is against it but it will fight back.
that's exactly what the US propaganda also claims
[deleted]
Re: China ready to hit back at U.S. with rare earths
#49Firstly, I don't know what they expect to achieve with these threats. I think the US has shown so far that it's not going to easily bend to such threats, this was a bad move on their part. Maybe they knew this, hence using the media to broadcast this message. Still, this very much sounds like escalation talk rather than de-escalation. Secondly, these "rare earths" aren't actually rare, most mines were simply shut dow…
What the current US government want to achieve is not clear neither. You can't expect China to say nothing and just abide to whatever. There's no long term view, China has quite a few things they can use to pressure the US and it will be stupid for them not to use those. It's a self-harming game and the first one to bend will lose it. The longer US tarifs stays, the more some US companies that depends on those import…
Wait, did the US not state what it wants to achieve?
It wants China to give the same market access as it enjoys in other countries in the world, including regulating and treating foreig companies as its own companies are treated. Also, IP theft.
It also seems that in contrast to what you say, other countries are setting up to move away from China, to Vietnam, say.
I wonder what recourse the CCP really has.
Re: China ready to hit back at U.S. with rare earths
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The Idea that the US is 'losing' due to the trade deficit and that reducing trade with China will benefit America is utter tosh and even the administration's own trade advisers and negotiators are saying so (a bit more politely). The problem isn't so much the deficit as it is the way the US has been seduced into relying upon the Chinese industrial machine. The US industrial base has been depleting for decades. This…
The "depleting" US industrial base is producing 2x what it was producing in 1990: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/INDPRO :) Which is pretty good growth, all things considered. Mini-rant, feel free to ignore: The alternative perspective which assumes total US industrial domination up to the present day (MAGA/Trump) is quite irrational considering world history: the US had almost no real industrial competition post-…
Production is up, but jobs are down to about half as much as a proportion of the population, and by about a third in real terms. But then unemployment is quite low right now and there are plenty of un-filled jobs. Pay for low wage earners has seen some encouraging gains over the last few years.
It's not clear the US actually needs a huge boost in manufacturing jobs. Historically, attempts to preserve or boost jobs artificially through trade manipulations have had limited success at massively disproportionate costs. Anyway in absolute terms manufacturing jobs aren't exactly low, it's at about the same level as in 1949.