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Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

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Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#11

Post by jdc »

tastroder wrote: post #8
cperciva wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're always free to say no.

Can you really? The article seems relatively clear that there are some problems regarding consent in this whole apparatus. I'm torn on the article. The Canadian government isn't China and we have had quite a few pretty public cases here in Germany where lack of inter-agency coordination led to serious harm in the context of our CPS equivalent. OTOH, at least from that article, this program doesn't seem to get the ove…

> Can you really?

In my experience with the RCMP at least, yes. They might give you attitude about it, though. I have received a veiled threat or two though (which materialized to nothing).

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#12

Post by taneq »

emptybits wrote: post #4

FTA: The Ontario Provincial Police say, “We can knock on someone’s door and say, ‘We’re so worried about you, can we come in and chat?’” Yikes. I understand the positive spin is the police care about the wellbeing of at-risk people with these visits. But wouldn't it also be true that anything and everything the police observe and believe as a result of such a visit could also be used against the resident or others in…

Yeah, without some pretty strong new protections in place there is absolutely no upside and likely a significant downside to letting them in. The police are not your friends.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#13

Post by cperciva »

tastroder wrote: post #8
cperciva wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're always free to say no.

Can you really? The article seems relatively clear that there are some problems regarding consent in this whole apparatus. I'm torn on the article. The Canadian government isn't China and we have had quite a few pretty public cases here in Germany where lack of inter-agency coordination led to serious harm in the context of our CPS equivalent. OTOH, at least from that article, this program doesn't seem to get the ove…

Yes you can. This program is being driven by a desire to identify potential future victims of crime, not a desire to identify future criminals.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#15

Post by sgift »

jdc wrote: post #11
tastroder wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you really? The article seems relatively clear that there are some problems regarding consent in this whole apparatus. I'm torn on the article. The Canadian government isn't China and we have had quite a few pretty public cases here in Germany where lack of inter-agency coordination led to serious harm in the context of our CPS equivalent. OTOH, at least from that article, this program doesn't seem to get the ove…

> Can you really? In my experience with the RCMP at least, yes. They might give you attitude about it, though. I have received a veiled threat or two though (which materialized to nothing).

What is "received a veiled threat"?

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#17

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #9

Sincere question: why is that not benevolent?

Because this sort of intervention leads directly to an Orwellian dystopia.

From the article:

> According to MCSCS documents, the most common risk factors ascribed to people in the database in 2017 were mental health (including “suspected” mental health issues), criminal involvement, drug use, and “antisocial/negative behaviour,” defined as “obnoxious [or] disruptive” behaviour.

It's a very short step from "antisocial/negative/obnoxious/disruptive behaviour" to a literal implementation of thoughtcrime.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#18

Post by sgift »

taneq wrote: post #12
emptybits wrote: post #4

FTA: The Ontario Provincial Police say, “We can knock on someone’s door and say, ‘We’re so worried about you, can we come in and chat?’” Yikes. I understand the positive spin is the police care about the wellbeing of at-risk people with these visits. But wouldn't it also be true that anything and everything the police observe and believe as a result of such a visit could also be used against the resident or others in…

Yeah, without some pretty strong new protections in place there is absolutely no upside and likely a significant downside to letting them in. The police are not your friends.

This post and the article have the same problem: Thinking the way police works/seems to work in the US (always out to get you) is universal to the world while it is the exception. Police in other countries usually works out of a desire to help.

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#19

Post by tastroder »

cperciva wrote: post #13
tastroder wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you really? The article seems relatively clear that there are some problems regarding consent in this whole apparatus. I'm torn on the article. The Canadian government isn't China and we have had quite a few pretty public cases here in Germany where lack of inter-agency coordination led to serious harm in the context of our CPS equivalent. OTOH, at least from that article, this program doesn't seem to get the ove…

Yes you can. This program is being driven by a desire to identify potential future victims of crime, not a desire to identify future criminals.

That makes sense I guess, thanks!

Re: Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk’ Database

#20

Post by mgiannopoulos »

taneq wrote: post #12
emptybits wrote: post #4

FTA: The Ontario Provincial Police say, “We can knock on someone’s door and say, ‘We’re so worried about you, can we come in and chat?’” Yikes. I understand the positive spin is the police care about the wellbeing of at-risk people with these visits. But wouldn't it also be true that anything and everything the police observe and believe as a result of such a visit could also be used against the resident or others in…

Yeah, without some pretty strong new protections in place there is absolutely no upside and likely a significant downside to letting them in. The police are not your friends.

“The police are not your friends.” In some countries outside the US, they are. https://www.oapen.org/download?type=document&docid=634763
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