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Ask HN: How close together are your bus stops?

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Re: Ask HN: How close together are your bus stops?

#91

Post by fasthandle »

It depends on the bus!

In my local city in China, for example:

The BRT stops every 2km or so, and runs on dedicated lanes.

The tram stops every 1km or so, no variation downtown or out of town.

The 5 buses and 6* buses tend to be long distance within a metropolitan area and stop every 2-500m at pickup and destination, but can run 30km only stopping a couple of times at key pick-up/drop-off locations.

Regularly numbered buses 1 though 70+ will stop every 500 meters or so, usually at each block.

There's an app, PandaBus, that shows all of the routes and stops for every stop in most Chinese cities, and has live GPS of buses for several cities. I don't know where they get the data, I'm sure you can just ask them.

In Hong Kong, numbering is a bit different and related to the city layout - basically HK is very dense in Central (Island) and Kowloon (peninsula) but due to coastal and mountainous topography very vast in the New Territories with 'new towns' being small urban pockets in the NT countryside.

Take the, IIRC, 73. The 73 route runs from Tai Po to Kowloon. The 73X does this with lots of pick-ups in Tai Po, then expressway to Kowloon with a single stop in Shatin, that's about 80km. The 73K does the same route but doesn't take the expressway and stops at every conceivable point, expending the journey time by an hour or two. HK people please correct me as it's a long time since I was in HK.

And HK also has the Toyota mini buses that have a single pickup point, drive like maniacs for 30-80km picking up speed downhill and losing momentum uphill, then drop off where you ask the driver. Good exciting ride, keep your eyes open!

Re: Ask HN: How close together are your bus stops?

#92

Post by JackFr »

traek wrote: post #90
JackFr wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know how the ridership is measured. I’m not sure what your point was. It’s also not surprising that the busiest stations have 10x as many riders as those less busy. The four track system of the NYC Subway was its most important innovation, and it literally solved the problem your talking about. You don’t want all the stops? Walk to 14th and take the express.

> I know how the ridership is measured. I’m not sure what your point was. Probably that it's inaccurate for you to say "the 4.5 million people who use the 28th Street stop" because that number is ridership, not people.

C’mon -- that was a rhetorical flourish.

Re: Ask HN: How close together are your bus stops?

#93

Post by rayiner »

cletus wrote: post #41
ghaff wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing you have no physical issues and don't think twice about walking 10 blocks. I (usually) don't either but that doesn't describe everyone and am able to just grab a cab or a Lyft if not.

Take the 18th Street stop. You actually can't get in or out of this station without using stairs AFAIK. There are other stations like this. Are you really using these stations if you're unable to walk a few blocks? It's expensive in time and money to stop and start the trains. Also you need to maintain a station and employ people there. If you want to provide for those with physical difficulties where walking 4 block…

> Are you American by any chance? I find Americans are more prone to this particular issue of not being able to make exceptions where necessary. People can't walk 4 blocks? Make everyone wait! Have more stops! Build more stations!

Americans have no sense of proportionality or optimizing for the system rather than the individual. It makes living in American cities infuriating.

Re: Ask HN: How close together are your bus stops?

#94

Post by CydeWeys »

JackFr wrote: post #92
traek wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know how the ridership is measured. I’m not sure what your point was. Probably that it's inaccurate for you to say "the 4.5 million people who use the 28th Street stop" because that number is ridership, not people.

C’mon -- that was a rhetorical flourish.

A rhetorical flourish that conveniently made your argument appear much stronger than it actually was.

Re: Ask HN: How close together are your bus stops?

#95

Post by rayiner »

ghaff wrote: post #42
LargeWu wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are always going to be competing interests and tradeoffs. Stopping the train is expensive, in terms of time. If one wants to be most accommodating for those with physical issues, then the cost of that is slower or less frequent trains.

Of course. But it's easy for many to unthinkingly look at public transit through the lens of efficiency for able-bodied riders and ignore those who are long-term or temporarily disabled in some manner.

That attitude is part of the reason why few people take public transit in most US cities. When the transit system is not optimized for the majority, the majority will not use it. That leads to a death spiral where it becomes just a safety net system for the people who have no alternatives.

Re: Ask HN: How close together are your bus stops?

#96

Post by rayiner »

euske wrote: post #88

Tokyo. The average distance between stops on major streets are about 200 to 400m here, except some busy areas. https://busmap.info/map/?q=%E6%9D%B1%E4%BA%AC%E9%83%BD%E6%96... As you can imagine, buses are just as amazing as trains in Tokyo. They're sometimes running late, but only up to a few minutes. And often they come at the exact time. (There's a time table for every bus stop.) Most buses are accessible and there…

I’m so jealous. Between your transit and your amazing baked goods.

Re: Ask HN: How close together are your bus stops?

#97

Post by ThePadawan »

1wd wrote: post #70
ThePadawan wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, national or regional data might be more complete. If you can speak enough German to navigate the download, you can e.g. find geodata of all bus stops in Zurich at https://maps.zh.ch/?topic=ZVVZH&showtab=ogddownload (they will only deliver to email addresses, so I cannot link the actual data here).

Zürich Tram and Bus distance (beeline) between stops of trips: Mean 199m Median 172m Min 14m (Zürich, Central Zürich, Central Polybahn) Max 678m (Pfäffikon SZ, Bahnhof Pfäffikon SZ, Schiffstation) According to a dataset of 1744 trips from https://data.stadt-zuerich.ch/dataset/vbz_fahrplandaten_gtfs

Really cool, and thanks for finding a much more accessible data set than I managed to!

For people non-familiar with Switzerland, though, it needs pointing out that Pfäffikon SZ is no longer in Zurich city nor Zurich state, but Schwyz (thus the SZ). It still comes up in that data set since it is served by ZVV, the Zurich transport authority. It would also be great to know how you group stops together as "the same stop, just different parts of it". I.e. Central vs. Central Polybahn - I would say these are actually colocated, just served by different lines (tram vs. furnicular).

Re: Ask HN: How close together are your bus stops?

#99

Post by gshdg »

cgriswald wrote: post #49
cletus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take the 18th Street stop. You actually can't get in or out of this station without using stairs AFAIK. There are other stations like this. Are you really using these stations if you're unable to walk a few blocks? It's expensive in time and money to stop and start the trains. Also you need to maintain a station and employ people there. If you want to provide for those with physical difficulties where walking 4 block…

> Take the 18th Street stop. You actually can't get in or out of this station without using stairs AFAIK. There are other stations like this. Are you really using these stations if you're unable to walk a few blocks? I'd imagine for someone in a wheelchair the stairs would present a much greater challenge than an extra four blocks. On the other hand, for someone with a prosthetic leg, climbing a set of stairs while h…

This. I’m on crutches right now. I’ll have to take stairs to get in and out of the subway almost anywhere, but that extra four blocks takes a ton out of you.
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