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Banned bread: why does the US allow additives that Europe says are unsafe?

theguardian.com

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Re: Banned bread: why does the US allow additives that Europe says are unsafe?

#41

Post by wguaa »

gerbilly wrote: post #26
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #12

I've always been fascinated by how disgusting the bread is in the US. Do we know what lead to this ?

The US has no food culture, come on they sell cheese in spray cans.¹ Generally food in the US is sold for size, not flavour or nutritional content. For example US roaster chickens are huge but basically live short sick lives and taste bland.² Chickens sold in France are smaller but have more flavour. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easy_Cheese 2: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1541-4337.1...

I've heard of many shitty foods like that spray can cheese that Americans eat, and cringed hard at them, but I've always assumed they can also get good stuff if they want to. If they can't, though, that's honestly very grave.

Re: Banned bread: why does the US allow additives that Europe says are unsafe?

#43

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

rasz wrote: post #35
maxxxxx wrote: post #2

I always look at the ingredients list of bread in the US and I am always surprised how long the list is. Why do they put so much stuff (and always sugar or syrup) into any bread?

Screw bread, they put sugar into mouthwash...

Go any evidence of that? A quick Google search doesn't show me any results indicating mouthwash containing sugar.

Re: Banned bread: why does the US allow additives that Europe says are unsafe?

#44

Post by thatfrenchguy »

csixty4 wrote: post #40
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #12

I've always been fascinated by how disgusting the bread is in the US. Do we know what lead to this ?

You might be interested in the book "White Bread: A Social History of the Store-Bought Loaf" by Aaron Bobrow-Strain A lot stems from the late 18th century concern that filthy immigrants were making unhealthy food in local bakeries. It was better -- so they said -- to eat mass-produced breads baked into identical loaves with small, evenly distributed air holes by clean machines and in a pure, clean white color to make…

That's an interesting read to add to my list thank you !

Re: Banned bread: why does the US allow additives that Europe says are unsafe?

#45

Post by zrobotics »

maxxxxx wrote: post #2

I always look at the ingredients list of bread in the US and I am always surprised how long the list is. Why do they put so much stuff (and always sugar or syrup) into any bread?

While I would agree that store-bought bread in the US contains far, far too much sugar (which is why I started baking bread myself in the first place), some amount of sugar is almost always required for leavened bread. The added sugar is what the yeast feeds on initially, since most flour won't provide enough easily-digestible sugars for the yeast. However, the amount of sugar required isn't much; my go-to recipie calls for 1 tablespoon of molasses for a 1.5lb loaf of rye/buckwheat loaf.

As to the length, for example the ingredient list of wonderbread from [0]:

  unbleached enriched flour (wheat flour, malted barley flour, niacin, reduced iron, thiamin mononitrate, riboflavin,
  folic acid), water, high fructose corn syrup, yeast, contains 2% or less of each of the following: calcium carbonate,
  soybean oil, wheat gluten, salt, dough conditioners (contains one or more of the following:
  sodium stearoyl lactylate, calcium stearoyl lactylate, monoglycerides, mono- and diglycerides, azodicarbonamide, 
  enzymes, ascorbic acid), vinegar, monocalcium phosphate, yeast extract, modified corn starch, sucrose, sugar, soy lecithin, 
  cholecalciferol (vitamin d3), soy flour, ammonium sulfate, calcium sulfate, calcium propionate (to retard spoilage).
In order, the oil is for crumb texture and added fat, the salt is to regulate yeast growth, the gluten is to allow the crumb to hold together better (especially as most of the naturally-occuring gluten is removed from white flour). The dough conditioners are used to get the horrible texture that people expect from wonder-bread, as well as making it easy (read: extremely consistent) to bake at massive scale. The rest are preservatives & nutrient enricheners. The preservatives allow the bread to last long enough to make it to a supermarket; fresh-baked bread spoils extremely quickly.

As far as what is actually needed to make the white bread, for the white bread I bake on occasion all that is used is flour, sugar, gluten, oil, yeast and salt in order of volume. Note however that this bread will only last a few days; and ideally will be consumed the same day as baking.

[0] https://www.fooducate.com/product/Wonder%20Classic%20White%2...

Re: Banned bread: why does the US allow additives that Europe says are unsafe?

#46

Post by petschge »

wguaa wrote: post #41
gerbilly wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has no food culture, come on they sell cheese in spray cans.¹ Generally food in the US is sold for size, not flavour or nutritional content. For example US roaster chickens are huge but basically live short sick lives and taste bland.² Chickens sold in France are smaller but have more flavour. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easy_Cheese 2: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1541-4337.1...

I've heard of many shitty foods like that spray can cheese that Americans eat, and cringed hard at them, but I've always assumed they can also get good stuff if they want to. If they can't, though, that's honestly very grave.

A lot of American can neither afford the good (usually imported) stuff, nor have never learned to appreciate it either.

Re: Banned bread: why does the US allow additives that Europe says are unsafe?

#47

Post by thatfrenchguy »

sureaboutthis wrote: post #20
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #12

I've always been fascinated by how disgusting the bread is in the US. Do we know what lead to this ?

"Factory" bread can be "disgusting" because it's made to feed the masses and gain market share, not taste good. For the same reason hamburgers at McDonald's are not as good as those made at a quality restaurant or at home. Good bread, as with any good food, typically takes time and quality ingredients. You won't find that in mass produced food. That costs too much.

I don't know, bread is literally cheaper and better-tasting in France (and many other countries).

Re: Banned bread: why does the US allow additives that Europe says are unsafe?

#48

Post by dbt00 »

zrobotics wrote: post #45
maxxxxx wrote: post #2

I always look at the ingredients list of bread in the US and I am always surprised how long the list is. Why do they put so much stuff (and always sugar or syrup) into any bread?

While I would agree that store-bought bread in the US contains far, far too much sugar (which is why I started baking bread myself in the first place), some amount of sugar is almost always required for leavened bread. The added sugar is what the yeast feeds on initially, since most flour won't provide enough easily-digestible sugars for the yeast. However, the amount of sugar required isn't much; my go-to recipie ca…

> niacin, reduced iron, thiamin mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid

And these are just iron and b-complex vitamins, the "enriched" part of enriched flour.

Re: Banned bread: why does the US allow additives that Europe says are unsafe?

#49

Post by chrisseaton »

shermozle wrote: post #13
maxxxxx wrote: post #2

I always look at the ingredients list of bread in the US and I am always surprised how long the list is. Why do they put so much stuff (and always sugar or syrup) into any bread?

Modern bread (including in those other countries without the additives mentioned in this article) isn't generally yeast risen. Yeast is added for flavour only. Expensive breads are different but the regular stuff you buy in supermarkets is agitated with hardened fats to trap air. Yeast not involved. This changes many of the properties of the bread and the long-term effects of this change aren't well understood. https…

Is it just me or does that Wikipedia article never really explain how the process works? It says three times that it 'allows the use of lower-protein wheats', but I can't see where it says how. (Your comment does explain it.)

Re: Banned bread: why does the US allow additives that Europe says are unsafe?

#50

Post by beenBoutIT »

Scaevolus wrote: post #21
saalweachter wrote: post #7

I do not know anything about these chemicals in particular, but this framing: > It may sound odd, but in America, your loaf of bread can contain ingredients with industrial applications – additives that also appear in things like yoga mats, pesticides, hair straighteners, explosives and petroleum products. always bugs the hell out of me. Water has numerous industrial applications. Linseed oil and NaCl have numerous i…

A particularly egregious case[1] is a lawsuit against LaCroix complaining that their product contains chemicals also used in cockroach insecticide. The chemical in common was linalool, which is just a floral scent! https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/10/08/lacroix-sparkling-wat...

Toll House Cookies contain 2 out of the 3 chemicals used in the clandestine manufacturer of crack cocaine, namely NaHCO3 and H2O.
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