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Google Now Forces Edge Preview Users to Use Chrome for the Modern YouTube

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Re: Google Now Forces Edge Preview Users to Use Chrome for the Modern YouTube

#71
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I work at Google but not on YouTube, speaking in a personal capacity. Long story short, it doesn’t really work this way. As an example, go to google.com on Internet Explorer 6. No, I’m serious. You will find that it loads just fine and even functions, over plain HTTP. It’s only a small subset of functionality, but it does actually work. You can’t do that with feature detection. YouTube may have crossed th…

> You can’t do that with feature detection. This... is just wrong. If you start from that base feature set that works on all browsers, and then utilize feature detection to progressively enhance the experience, you can definitely do just what this statement says. Its just easier to rely on UA sniffing, but don't spread misinformation that it isn't possible. It is a LOT more work, particularly to ensure that the exper…

But there are genuinely things that can't be feature detected.

A bug that happens 1% of the time due to reasons still unknown, or features or bugs that need something to happen on the user or hardware side to detect.

For example, I had an issue once where when using WebRTC on some devices with 3 rear-facing cameras on android it would horizontally flip the "long range focus" camera. There is no way to feature detect that. Hell there wasn't even a way for me to feature detect that I should use the second of the 3 cameras on that device (the first was a fisheye-style wide angle lens, and the 3rd was a middle-ground lens, but the second worked best for our usecase).

I've also used UA detection on a browser bug that would cause fetch requests to fail if the user went offline for a split second inbetween requests. There is no way for me to detect that before the bug happens, and once it happened the "failures" looked like it just never came back online. UA detection was the only tool I had to fix that until it was fixed at the browser level.

Re: Google Now Forces Edge Preview Users to Use Chrome for the Modern YouTube

#72
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I work at Google but not on YouTube, speaking in a personal capacity. Long story short, it doesn’t really work this way. As an example, go to google.com on Internet Explorer 6. No, I’m serious. You will find that it loads just fine and even functions, over plain HTTP. It’s only a small subset of functionality, but it does actually work. You can’t do that with feature detection. YouTube may have crossed th…

> You can’t do that with feature detection. This... is just wrong. If you start from that base feature set that works on all browsers, and then utilize feature detection to progressively enhance the experience, you can definitely do just what this statement says. Its just easier to rely on UA sniffing, but don't spread misinformation that it isn't possible. It is a LOT more work, particularly to ensure that the exper…

If you actually want to support IE6 you have to use some abomination of non-HTML as your base feature set, though.

But UA sniffing should only be used for absolutely broken browsers. For functional browsers baseline+enhancements is very doable, and unknown browsers should be assumed functional.

Re: Google Now Forces Edge Preview Users to Use Chrome for the Modern YouTube

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can’t do that with feature detection. This... is just wrong. If you start from that base feature set that works on all browsers, and then utilize feature detection to progressively enhance the experience, you can definitely do just what this statement says. Its just easier to rely on UA sniffing, but don't spread misinformation that it isn't possible. It is a LOT more work, particularly to ensure that the exper…

But there are genuinely things that can't be feature detected. A bug that happens 1% of the time due to reasons still unknown, or features or bugs that need something to happen on the user or hardware side to detect. For example, I had an issue once where when using WebRTC on some devices with 3 rear-facing cameras on android it would horizontally flip the "long range focus" camera. There is no way to feature detect…

UA detection for known bugs is very different from UA detection to enable standardized features.

Re: Google Now Forces Edge Preview Users to Use Chrome for the Modern YouTube

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there are genuinely things that can't be feature detected. A bug that happens 1% of the time due to reasons still unknown, or features or bugs that need something to happen on the user or hardware side to detect. For example, I had an issue once where when using WebRTC on some devices with 3 rear-facing cameras on android it would horizontally flip the "long range focus" camera. There is no way to feature detect…

UA detection for known bugs is very different from UA detection to enable standardized features.

[deleted]

Re: Google Now Forces Edge Preview Users to Use Chrome for the Modern YouTube

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can’t do that with feature detection. This... is just wrong. If you start from that base feature set that works on all browsers, and then utilize feature detection to progressively enhance the experience, you can definitely do just what this statement says. Its just easier to rely on UA sniffing, but don't spread misinformation that it isn't possible. It is a LOT more work, particularly to ensure that the exper…

But there are genuinely things that can't be feature detected. A bug that happens 1% of the time due to reasons still unknown, or features or bugs that need something to happen on the user or hardware side to detect. For example, I had an issue once where when using WebRTC on some devices with 3 rear-facing cameras on android it would horizontally flip the "long range focus" camera. There is no way to feature detect…

You're still talking about progressive enhancement though.

There's a difference between using a user-agent check to find a very specific environment where a bug will occur, and using a user-agent check to determine which of 3 browsers you accept. Used properly, user-agent tests can be a kind of adjacent form of feature detection. Used improperly, and your site is best viewed in IE, even though the user is on a browser that they know will work.

Re: Google Now Forces Edge Preview Users to Use Chrome for the Modern YouTube

#78

Most likely a user-agent check to ensure compatibility. I don't assume any ill intent. That being said, what does annoy me is that we've known for years that feature detection is preferable to user-agent detection, and I would kind of expect one of the biggest web development companies in the world to be following best practices. This isn't my local pizza shop, Google engineers should know better. Have they already f…

Disclaimer: I work at Google but not on YouTube, also speaking just personally. This isn’t practical at all in a latency sensitive environment. Feature detection works once JavaScript has loaded on the page, which means we either have to serve you a giant bundle of stuff you may not be able to use, or we have to degrade the experience of the latest browsers by detecting features and fetching more HTML/CSS/JavaScript…

It's Youtube, not high frequency trading.

Re: Google Now Forces Edge Preview Users to Use Chrome for the Modern YouTube

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there are genuinely things that can't be feature detected. A bug that happens 1% of the time due to reasons still unknown, or features or bugs that need something to happen on the user or hardware side to detect. For example, I had an issue once where when using WebRTC on some devices with 3 rear-facing cameras on android it would horizontally flip the "long range focus" camera. There is no way to feature detect…

UA detection for known bugs is very different from UA detection to enable standardized features.

@Klathmon

This is also true of your fallback features. They may be implemented incorrectly in an unknown browser too. But it's not reasonable to assume that. You should assume the feature works, unless the UA is on a blacklist.

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