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Why is chicken so cheap? [video]

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Re: Why is chicken so cheap? [video]

#111

Post by mikeash »

ars wrote: post #107
mikeash wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure chicken desires are quite that simple, nor that many humans would accept your deal. But even if we take all of that at face value: would you describe the result as “successful”?

Well that depends on your goal wouldn't it? I'm not sure what the goal of the chicken is except maybe to make more chickens, and if that's the goal then yes chickens were successful. If your goal as a human is to explore and pass on your knowledge to your children, then yes, that could be considered as successful as well. Also, it depends in large part on if your goals are personal, or generational. If personal then…

Having all of your descendants born into slavery is definitely a success?

Re: Why is chicken so cheap? [video]

#112

Post by evgen »

michaelt wrote: post #87
matz1 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human are part of nature too, so yes they evolved.

Personally I would say they "were bred" rather than they "evolved" because it's the result of artificial selection, rather than natural selection.

Once again, humans are a part of nature. Chickens exist in a symbiotic relationship with humans. Would you describe the fungus grown by certain ant colonies as having been 'bred' by the ants or as co-evolving with them? Chicken evolution is only artificial if you consider human desires and motivations as being outside of nature.

Re: Why is chicken so cheap? [video]

#113

Post by toasterlovin »

avar wrote: post #106
Creationer wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrasting against Pigs and Cows: 1. Small animal which requires less bone structure to support (bone scales non-linearly with mass for land animals). 2. Shorter lifespan and use of eggs allows simpler and quicker sexual selection. 3. Less intelligent animal so less energy and nutrition spent on growing the brain and maintaining its function. Its a smaller animal, basically. Fish and insects are more efficient than…

The main reason has little to do with any of that, but just historical inertia. There's a lot of species that could have potentially replaced the chicken if we unwind human history and started anew, but it's not a competition between wild species of birds today, but chickens with at least 5000 years of human-guided domestication v.s. most other species. The same can be said about pretty much anything people eat and f…

I think your #2 is a pretty good insight.

Separately, I’m more interested in why chickens are more economically efficient than, say, pigs or cows than why they’re more efficient than other birds. Any thoughts there?

Re: Why is chicken so cheap? [video]

#114

Post by QuercusMax »

13of40 wrote: post #105
_hardwaregeek wrote: post #97

Whenever I travel outside the US, I'm always struck by how different the chickens look. Chickens in the US have a pale appearance, with flabby, almost mushy meat. They look as if they were grown on a tree, never alive and running. While chickens in say, Italy or Mexico tend to look like they were alive at some point. There's color in the meat, often a yellow tint. Their skin and muscle look used and not atrophied. I…

I've noticed the same thing with tomatoes and apricots. I've got a good friend whose family have an apricot farm in the Kurdish part of Turkey, and their apricots are amazing, but the same variety grown in Western Washington tastes like plastic. There's something seriously pathological with the "terrior" in the western part of north America. (Luckily it doesn't extend to wine.)

It could be over-watering. Overwatered produce often looks the same, but lacks in flavor, texture, etc. Makes sense if you have cheap agricultural water and want to sell more low quality fruit.

Re: Why is chicken so cheap? [video]

#115

Post by toasterlovin »

kgwgk wrote: post #85
toasterlovin wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but why are they the cheapest form of meat? There’s probably some biochemical or energy utilization reason. Perhaps it has to do with chickens being fairly lean meat. I don’t know, but have often wondered.

One of the reasons is that you raise them for weeks, not months.

How does that impact cost per calorie (or gram of protein or whatever)? Haven’t thought deeply about it, but this doesn’t seem like a fundamental constraint, though it would allow breeding (which takes place over generations) to find optimizations faster.

Re: Why is chicken so cheap? [video]

#116

Post by taffer »

toasterlovin wrote: post #74
perfmode wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

blacks weren't people then, either. back then, blacks didn't occupy the same moral category as the humans who bred and traded them. afterwards, blacks were upgraded to 2/5ths human. now, we still struggle for acceptance and parity. morality is a process.

Animals are categorically not humans. This is a scientific fact which you can quantify and measure. Blacks are humans. That is another scientific fact which you can quantify and measure.

Who says that we should draw the line at species level and not in any other arbitrarily chosen category? Science is not.

Re: Why is chicken so cheap? [video]

#117

Post by ars »

mikeash wrote: post #111
ars wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that depends on your goal wouldn't it? I'm not sure what the goal of the chicken is except maybe to make more chickens, and if that's the goal then yes chickens were successful. If your goal as a human is to explore and pass on your knowledge to your children, then yes, that could be considered as successful as well. Also, it depends in large part on if your goals are personal, or generational. If personal then…

Having all of your descendants born into slavery is definitely a success?

> slavery

Why did you just change the scenario?

Re: Why is chicken so cheap? [video]

#118

Post by DuskStar »

conjectures wrote: post #79
evgen wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can imagine any fantasy scenarios you want if it makes you feel any better, but nothing in the past century of agricultural progress has had a significant impact on the economic factors motivating the industry. Animal farming is not the most efficient way to provide calories, but humanity does not lack for calories. Livestock (excepting ruminants that graze on land that is unsuitable for farming) is a caloric agg…

"Animal farming is not the most efficient way to provide calories, but humanity does not lack for calories." Actually, a lot of humans do go hungry. The inefficiency of using land for crops to feed to livestock means that the price of staples is higher than it otherwise would be. While meeting market demands is a large part of what will change things I think you're missing a piece on how this will come about. If ther…

> Actually, a lot of humans do go hungry. The inefficiency of using land for crops to feed to livestock means that the price of staples is higher than it otherwise would be.

I'll posit that even if you made grain free at the docks in the US, there would still be people in the world going hungry. (Fewer people, certainly) Transportation and distribution is just as large a problem as production at this point in history.

Re: Why is chicken so cheap? [video]

#119

Post by avar »

RandallBrown wrote: post #2

Wow, 39 is much shorter than I expected. I guess it makes sense, because how else could you keep up with demand, but my view of animal lifecycles only has stuff like bugs fully maturing so quickly. Interesting stuff. Now my question is why are bananas so cheap? They come all the way from like Brazil, but they're still cheaper than the apple that is grown just a couple hours from me.

The same reason a T-shirt made and shipped from China is cheaper than one manufactured next door to you.

The contribution of international transport to the cost of pretty much any consumer good is minuscule compared to other factors, so the starting premise that something should be cheaper just because it's grown locally is false from the outset.

Re: Why is chicken so cheap? [video]

#120

Post by RandomBacon »

ars wrote: post #117
mikeash wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having all of your descendants born into slavery is definitely a success?

> slavery Why did you just change the scenario?

I don't think he/she did.

I would consider chickens held in captivity comparible to humans held in captivity. Holding a human in captivity is forcing someone else's will on that person and not giving them the opportunity to be free. I call that slavery.

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